Should an infidel husband sleep on the couch?


#1

Dear Friends:

You know my story and saga, but I really would like your replies specifically to my particular question. Thank you so much here.

I have 2 threads going, but at this point I really would like your Catholic-Christian thoughts too.

Should a husband that is continuing to choose infidelity and ongoing nude lap dances be banned to sleeping on the couch/or am I the one who is wrong in insisting this? Thank you.

FYI, anyone reading this for the first time: here's the situation:

Hubby going to nude strip joints endlessly, not thinking there is anything wrong with it, etc., etc....separated 4 times in past 2 years over it. Hubby non-repentant/non-remorseful, still choosing to engage in it, etc.

As a faithful Catholic, is it wrong to shut my husband out sexually, and out of our bedroom because of his behavior? I feel I have my boundaries here, but I'd like to find out the right and Godly thing to do, regardless of what I want. I want to do what God wants.

Thoughts? I simply hate him for his infidelity, FYI.

Thank you all.


#2

If he is engaging in extramarital sexual relations of any kind, I would not sleep with him because you are opening up yourself to disease. I simply would not do it at all. And yes, he'd be sleeping on the couch and should be grateful it was still in the home. I would not remain with an unrepentent and repeating infidel. It's dangerous and I (and you) deserve better than that.

If I knew the lap dancing is as far as it goes, and if I knew for sure that he wasn't cheating on me, I would sleep with him --- but I couldn't ever sleep with a man that I "hate". I'm not sure if you're using the word "hate" loosely, but I couldn't give my body to someone that I didn't love. Yes, your body belongs to your husband, and his body belongs to you, and this is a reciprocal relationship. But wives (and husbands for that matter) are not sexual slaves of their spouses, and remember that sex is sinful if there is no mutual consent. I would not allow myself to be coerced into sexual relations with anyone, even if that anyone was my husband. That's not to convey that sex is a 'weapon', because it's not, but again, consent is a requirement.


#3

Lap dances are equivalent to serious sin and therefore he is sinning in his mind but making it obvious by his doing it openly. If you have children he is making sure they hate him and you for putting up with this. Leave him. Dump him like a hot potato. You are worth far more than he is treating you and those women in the strip bars. He has a serious problem and you should seek an annulment asap. It appears you have already tried to make it work. He seems to be addicted to the idea of sex, not love.


#4

Prayers sent your way. How can your husband justify visiting a club where naked women grind on him? Does he attend mass?
Oh, and no, if my wife did that I would probably be seeking an annulment if she failed to repent or didnt make any attempt to control the urges.


#5

[quote="nominal_effect, post:3, topic:204258"]
Lap dances are equivalent to serious sin and therefore he is sinning in his mind but making it obvious by his doing it openly. If you have children he is making sure they hate him and you for putting up with this. Leave him. Dump him like a hot potato. You are worth far more than he is treating you and those women in the strip bars. He has a serious problem and you should seek an annulment asap. It appears you have already tried to make it work. He seems to be addicted to the idea of sex, not love.

[/quote]

Thank you. I feel the same. As soon as I obtain work, I plan on getting him kicked out non stop by restraining order or whatever. I just have to make sure I have money though first which is very hard. What by all means did women do in the olden days? Did any of you see the movie "The Duchess"? I cried through the whole movie.... This is so hard. Thank you though for your views. It confirms I am not stupid and doing the right thing.

Pray for me friends.


#6

As to the original question: no, a wife does not have to sleep with an unfaithful husband who might be bringing home diseases. He is the one who is defiling the marital bed. A wife could allow relations without sin on her part, if her intention and reasonable hope was to preserve the marriage, but she might just as well conclude that the infidelity would do even more damage if she consented to sleep with her spouse. In any case, the OP does not sin by insisting on defending her own dignity. It is her husband who has defiled and attacked the marriage, not the wife.

[quote="nominal_effect, post:3, topic:204258"]
Lap dances are equivalent to serious sin and therefore he is sinning in his mind but making it obvious by his doing it openly. If you have children he is making sure they hate him and you for putting up with this. Leave him. Dump him like a hot potato. You are worth far more than he is treating you and those women in the strip bars. He has a serious problem and you should seek an annulment asap. It appears you have already tried to make it work. He seems to be addicted to the idea of sex, not love.

[/quote]

Let's not speculate on whether any children in this marriage hate their father, let alone that they'd dream of hating their mother for this situation! They are in a very bad and complicated position, but so is their mother.

Just to clarify: the choice to commit serious sin does not necessarily prove a defect in marital consent or capability. Excepting a defect in form, it's not a good idea to presume an annulment will be available on theoretical grounds. I know a woman who was not granted a decree of nullity for her marriage, even though her husband abandoned her. The trubunal did not find a defect. The husband simply chose not to do what he knowingly promised to do and which he was fully capable of doing. That causes untold suffering for the other spouse, but it does not make the marriage invalid.

Having said that, the Church allows civil divorce of valid marriages when the reasons are sufficiently grave. It depends on the situation.

[quote="Corinne3, post:5, topic:204258"]
Thank you. I feel the same. As soon as I obtain work, I plan on getting him kicked out non stop by restraining order or whatever. I just have to make sure I have money though first which is very hard. What by all means did women do in the olden days? Did any of you see the movie "The Duchess"? I cried through the whole movie.... This is so hard. Thank you though for your views. It confirms I am not stupid and doing the right thing.

Pray for me friends.

[/quote]

Although I would have to bet that you may well have a marriage that was never valid, due to your husband's recalcitrance in his attitude toward infidelity, divorce is a very serious step. The issue of whether divorce is a good idea or an annulment is likely to be granted should be discussed with an experienced priest. This is a time for careful discernment and guidance by a priest one can meet in person and with whom you can discuss this at length.

Once the decision is made to divorce or legally separate, consult with an attorney. The time to take action may not be contingent on whether or not the aggrieved spouse can obtain a job.

The money and time spent on prudent and experienced legal and spiritual counsel will be well-spent. Don't short yourself by skimping on it.


#7

[quote="Corinne3, post:1, topic:204258"]

Should a husband that is continuing to choose infidelity and ongoing nude lap dances be banned to sleeping on the couch/or am I the one who is wrong in insisting this? .

[/quote]

YES. Either that or out of the house. Ask a holy preist for specific advice!

[quote="Corinne3, post:1, topic:204258"]
Thoughts? I simply hate him for his infidelity, FYI.
.

[/quote]

Thats understandable! God understands! He willhelp you with it. He does not condemn you for your feelings and He wants you to come to HIm with your feelings so He can ehlp you. Ask His Mother, the Seat of Wisdom.

At the time of discovery of my husband's infidelity, I told a holy priest about my hate in my heart, for his broken vow, but more for what he was doing to our child, tearing apart our home. The priest advised me that my feelings were understandable, and that I should pray for him. I think I was actually telling him that I know I should pray, and want to, but because of the resentment in my heart-toward him, resentment I harbored even though I logically knew my husband was weak and trapped - I just couldn't pray. The preist asked me to pray 3 Hail Mary;'s for him every night. Thats been six years and I still do every night, even though I recently cut it to one sincere Hail Mary. And also,

I am sure that it was Our Lady who inspir4ed me to ask Her to pray for him with her perfect heart, since my heart was too imperfect to pray whole-heartedly for him. So I blessed and continue to bless my errant husband (now ex) with the best prayers ever. And its not hard, because I am simply obedient to pray and Mary does the real work, with her truest, most faithful, loving heart.

And I know it is only God's grace that has taken bitterness out of my heart, and I depend on His Grace to scrape out every last bit of it. I now I will continue to recieve graces for that because God's ordinary way of imparting extrodinary graces is throught the Sacraments. And because "He who has beguna good work in me will perfect it to the day of Jesus Christ".

"Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof" (- Proverbs). I have been in a similar heartbreaking situation, in my case an affiar to end a long marraige, and I know God will give yiou the graces to navigate this trial that He has allowed in your life, and will grant you supernatural peace, a peace that makes no sense in your situation. And in the end,* it will be better* - whatever unexpected end God allows for you.

And yes, you probably have boundary issues, and there are counselors, books and groups for that!


#8

Friends: For the first time in 3 years, I have felt the Lord's leading here. I feel, so sadly that my h does not love me or that he loves his sin more than me, which is so hard. I feel simply devastated over this.

Thank you for your good responses.


#9

Sister, if I were in your situation, the next time he was late for supper, and I knew he was going to be out past midnight at a strip club, I'd have the locks changed and his bags packed and out on the lawn before he returned - and the kids would get that German Shepherd dog they've always wanted. :)


#10

Here is what the Church teaches, via canon law, regarding conjugal relations with an adulterous spouse:

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.

Can. 1152 §1. Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and concerned for the good of the family, not refuse forgiveness to an adulterous partner and not disrupt conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse did not condone the fault of the other expressly or tacitly, the spouse has the right to sever conjugal living unless the spouse consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or also committed adultery.

§2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse has had marital relations voluntarily with the other spouse after having become certain of the adultery. It is presumed, moreover, if the spouse observed conjugal living for six months and did not make recourse to the ecclesiastical or civil authority.

§3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently.


#11

Hate to pick nits here, but infidel used as an adjective means adhering to a religion other than that of the majority. It is not the same as adulterous, which I think is what the OP intended to express.


#12

And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication and shall marry another, commiteth adultery, and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Matthew 19:9

In other words, you're allowed to separate from a spouse who commits adultery, but it's not an annulment -- it's just a separation. The marriage still exists, another marriage is not allowed.

Normally husbands and wives must stay together, and conjugal rights are still retained. But adultery allows for them to be suspended.

Having a husband sleep on the couch is certainly permitted and within the bounds because of the offense of adultery. There are other kinds of conflicts where it wouldn't be within bounds -- but this one it is.


#13

[quote="1ke, post:10, topic:204258"]
Here is what the Church teaches, via canon law, regarding conjugal relations with an adulterous spouse:

Can. 1151 Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.

Can. 1152 §1. Although it is earnestly recommended that a spouse, moved by Christian charity and concerned for the good of the family, not refuse forgiveness to an adulterous partner and not disrupt conjugal life, nevertheless, if the spouse did not condone the fault of the other expressly or tacitly, the spouse has the right to sever conjugal living unless the spouse consented to the adultery, gave cause for it, or also committed adultery.

§2. Tacit condonation exists if the innocent spouse has had marital relations voluntarily with the other spouse after having become certain of the adultery. It is presumed, moreover, if the spouse observed conjugal living for six months and did not make recourse to the ecclesiastical or civil authority.

§3. If the innocent spouse has severed conjugal living voluntarily, the spouse is to introduce a cause for separation within six months to the competent ecclesiastical authority which, after having investigated all the circumstances, is to consider carefully whether the innocent spouse can be moved to forgive the fault and not to prolong the separation permanently.

[/quote]

Thank you 1KE!


#14

Thank you SHIN!


#15

You have my prayers! Be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove!

You're in the middle of a spiritual battle! Never lose sight of God's will through it all, and the ultimate goal!

He bears your burdens with you!

'Jesus Christ is the true Friend of our hearts, for they are made for Him alone; therefore they can find neither rest, joy nor fullness of content save in Him -- so let us love Him with all our strength.'

St. Margaret Mary Alacoque


#16

Thank you so very much Shin and other poster for providfing wise advice.

:D


#17

[quote="Rence, post:2, topic:204258"]

If I knew the lap dancing is as far as it goes, and if I knew for sure that he wasn't cheating on me, I would sleep with him ---

[/quote]

Be careful - how could she know that lap dancing is as far as it goes? Skin contact without actual intercourse, oral sex, or intercourse with condoms can also transmit STDs. And just what are her assurances that he doesn't have oral sex, or even sexual intercourse, with the stripper? Believing what he says would be the height of foolishness.

I know I am wasting my time here - Corinne has been warned multiple times by multiple people, but she just won't listen. Until she will find it out the hard way... :(


#18

[quote="Shin, post:15, topic:204258"]
You have my prayers! Be wise as a serpent and innocent as a dove!

You're in the middle of a spiritual battle! Never lose sight of God's will through it all, and the ultimate goal!

He bears your burdens with you!

'Jesus Christ is the true Friend of our hearts, for they are made for Him alone; therefore they can find neither rest, joy nor fullness of content save in Him -- so let us love Him with all our strength.'

St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

[/quote]

Thank you so much Shin! I appreciate what you say above! Just cried my eyes out, because the 4th of July brings back so many horrible memories of 2 years ago, when my h was deep in his affair, and came over doing fireworks with our kids as if nothing was even up.....then just leaving......it broke my heart and still does. I hope I don't always hate the 4th because of it.....ya know some things just bring back horrible memories..... thank u for reminding me how Jesus bears my burdens with me. What a comfort.
Bless u:)


#19

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:17, topic:204258"]
Be careful - how could she know that lap dancing is as far as it goes? Skin contact without actual intercourse, oral sex, or intercourse with condoms can also transmit STDs. And just what are her assurances that he doesn't have oral sex, or even sexual intercourse, with the stripper? Believing what he says would be the height of foolishness.

I know I am wasting my time here - Corinne has been warned multiple times by multiple people, but she just won't listen. Until she will find it out the hard way... :(

[/quote]

You are not wasting your time Joseph. Thank you so much!:thumbsup:


#20

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:17, topic:204258"]
Be careful - how could she know that lap dancing is as far as it goes? Skin contact without actual intercourse, oral sex, or intercourse with condoms can also transmit STDs. And just what are her assurances that he doesn't have oral sex, or even sexual intercourse, with the stripper? Believing what he says would be the height of foolishness.

I know I am wasting my time here - Corinne has been warned multiple times by multiple people, but she just won't listen. Until she will find it out the hard way... :(

[/quote]

Many people have a mistaken view of what the average lap dance entails. I am going through the same thing with my husband. The "accepted" view is that the man must sit on his hands throughout the whole thing, and that not all lap dances involve the dancer touching the man, some just dance very close. What actually happens at most of them is far from that. The man's hands are allowed anywhere. And for a price, he can have any form of sex. They are basically prostitutes. Mine thinks everything was AOK because he did not have intercourse!!! Men who use lap dancers like the euphemism "lap dance" because it appeals to their twisted morals and desensitized view of pornography.


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