Should Catholics practice Kosher laws?

I’ve asked you for sources just so I can learn more about you are saying, however as i have repeated over and over again this is not the context of the topic.

The topic is to discuss the morality in eating animals that have been killed in a cruel manner and that video is just an example of cruelty so it doesn’t matter if this video just compiled 1 out of 300 farms in one state. I did not post those videos for the sake of raising awareness about the existence of farms.

There are Christians all over the world, not all of them have the procedures as the west.

In Spain, there is tradition called bull fighting. In prior to eating the bull, they allow it run around the town and people can throw/stab or whatever damage or fun they want until it collapses and dies. So the topic is.

In China, their is a belief by some people that the greater the animal suffers, the better the meat… so various markets such as in Wuhan do things such as blow torch live dogs, stuff live koala’s in boiling pots (also crucifying them to walls and punching them to death), and other forms of sadism… etc.

In other countries, there is a delicacy known as monkey brains. What they do is they put a live monkey inside a table with it’s head sticking out of the hole, and the person beats it to death.

This is what the topic is about. If a christian goes to these places and decides to try to eat something exotic, is it morally wrong to eat animals that have been killed this way?

I don’t understand why you are arguing about “that video doesn’t represent the entire farm industry” as if this about the farm industry itself, i’ve been explaining to you what the topic is about over and again.

You posted videos as the only source of information to your objections with modern practices if killing animals. you explicitly refused to state any objections beyond those videos, so all we can do is discuss the validity of the videos. And you brought up the castration issue, not me. I simply pointed out that the depiction of castration is so far off common practice, it us evidence the videos are biased to the extent they are not useful to draw moral judgements.

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because that video is the most g-rated of the sources out there. Also, I have given other forms of “text-based” information that you just ignore such as the one on top with my referencing of other countries.

You’ve totally missed the point of referencing the castration videos again this isn’t about how many farms do this! I’ve said this numerous times what the topic is about and up to now you are ignoring this.

“your objection with modern practices”, this was never the topic you clearly have 0 understanding about what is being talked about.

Also tefan. This “common practice” argument of yours (while redundant) is still waiting evidence. You’ve made up a statistic (99.9%), so I would like to see how true and accurate this “common practice” is. Please show me a credible statistic of this, I want to see the actual % of the common way of castration as told by you.

This world is a sinful world…people do bad things to other people…wars…famine…all caused by peoples greed…lust for power…wealth…etc…babies are killed in their mothers womb…children die from hunger…treatable diseases…people kill animals for meat…some people kill them for “sport”…some just kill them because they have twisted minds…animals kill other animals to eat…insects kill other insects to eat…pretty gruesome in some insects…so yes…it’s cruel no matter what…but that’s the way it will be until Christ returns…I do eat red meat…it really wouldn’t matter if I didn’t as I can go for months without it…what I wonder is if we were ever meant to eat the amount of meat we do eat…did God intend for us to eat meat 2-3 or even more times a week…I was watching a show on those “blue zones” where people live longer than most…one was a Greek island…Ikaria…people will eat meat maybe 4-5 times a month…the slaughtered animal will last the whole year…they eat mainly a plant based diet…same here in the US…in California…Loma Linda…has one of the highest number of Seventh Day Adventists in the world…many of those are vegetarian or only eat meat according to strict dietary rules…the Islands off Japan are another place where the people eat a regular diet of fish…and live longer…and of course these groups of peoples have active lifestyles…family and community are also a big part of their lives.

I understand the topic, modern slaughterhouses are cruel, so we should adopt kosher ones ( nevermind that they come under much more scrutiny for cruelty)

I know both dairy and cattle farmers; and none of them are keeping in cramped conditions, bad food, and no sunlight.

bad food equals either bad milk or poor growth of meat. No sane farmer would do that, and the insane ones are not farming.

Cramped conditions needs to be spelled out. All of both dairy and cattle farmers in my area have their animals out on pasture every day.

No sunlight - see above.

I can’t speak for your friends, but there are reports of the things I described occurring in Intensive Animal Farming.

To use chicken farming as an example, one method of storing the chickens is with battery cages.

Nope. That is not the topic. I’ve told you what the topic was more than 3x in every post so far. You are not reading it apparently.

I dont think avoiding meat that has been mistreated should be introduced as doctrine.

For one, it would be extremely difficult to determine if the specific cut one is eating was one such animal, so determination of fault is hard.

Second, it would be an easy stumbling block for people suffering from scrupilosity. Especially so seeing as one could hardly be expected to trace the source of every single meal.

Third, as cruelty to animals is already discouraged, it makes no sense to transfer the culpability onto the consumer when there is no reasonable expectation to say they participated in said cruelty.

Fourth, it honestly isn’t a widespread problem. Seeing the footage is shocking, but there is no reason to suspect that those experiences are universal. No I’m not claiming any statistics, but I am asking you for further sources that prove that animal cruelty is widespread.

Fifth, animals are not rational beings, and to upend the distribution network for their sake is unreasonable considering the massive amount of harm it would people, who are rational beings.

Sixth, even if doctrine would or could be introduced-to say that doctrine would be either the spiritual successor or direct inheritor of the Kosher laws would be divisive and problematic at best, and dishonest and heretical at worst.

Seventh, seeing as there is already a moral incentive to discourage animal cruelty, what good would establishing a dietary doctrine do?

And also, as it is to the point of the discussion, do we know Jewish slaughtering rituals are actually practiced in all slaughtering houses in which the meat is deemed kosher? Was there not once a documentary about inhumane slaughtering practices in such facilities?

If we want certain animal husbandry practices to be required, we ought to just require them. Christians do not need to keep kosher to do that.

I don’t meltzerboy is suggesting we do. He’s pointed out that is nigh on impossible to keep kosher outside of a Jewish environment without a supportive culture around you. He’s just pointing out that many slaughterhouses which say they are Kosher or Halal or not when examined closely and just trumpet it to try and sell meat to members of their community.

I have this way of sounding like I’m issuing a correction when I’m actually adding on to a comment.

Fair enough. I personally think the OP is agenda posting to be honest and I found the pushing of those videos part way into the thread annoying. They also keep brushing of other perspectives. If the OP doesn’t want to eat meat, great, we probably do eat too much. But that is a purely personal choice and nothing more.

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As far as I know, kosher slaughter rules only have to do with the slaughtering procedure. Besides that, the rules have to do with which animals are acceptable to eat and handling the meat to remove blood. It does not automatically imply that animals were humanely-raised or any of the rest.

Dude, you don’t know that a cow is a female, but you are an expert in humane butchery? I appreciate your desire that animals be treated without cruelty and that is in line with Church teaching, however, I think you need to do a bit more research before making statements like everyone should go back to Kosher laws. Also, I’ve never been as concerned with how animals are killed for food as how they lived. I personally am far more concerned about the cruelty involved in the living conditions for animals raised for meat.

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English isn’t my first language. We don’t have distinctions between cows, bulls, and steers. They all translate to the same word. Usually the general term would be the one we are normally a custom with. Also, your pointing out of “irony” of not knowing the right animal names and knowing what butchery is humane is highly absurd logic.

I’m not an expert on dogs, but I can tell if that boiling dogs alive is cruel. Do you need to be an expert on specific species classifications/names to know when it’s being slaughtered cruelty. Seriously? …

But animals aren’t routinely being boiled alive and where they are, it’s not by people who are likely to be persuaded by Catholic doctrine anyway. And you were trying to argue that Kosher methods of slaughter are more humane than the typical method, despite the fact that poster with experience in raising animals and explained why it isn’t. And yes, knowing something about the nature of an animal certainly helps to determine what pain and distress it experiences. Most people who raise and slaughter animals aren’t sadistic. You should give them some credit and listen to them as much as videos that take the extreme and make out as if they are common place.

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I agree and have flagged both the post with the videos and the entire thread.
This isn’t a reasonable discussion, this is a case of someone with an agenda who is not listening to posters who have experience with the subject matter and/or other reasonable views.

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