Should Colleges run criminal/mental background checks on Students?

Just curious, but there have been several major events at college campuses over the past several years. Typically a crazy *(sorry that is not P.C., I should have said ‘troubled’) *student killed other students. Now my daughter is not old enough for college yet, but being a concerned parent I want her to be safe. Most college policies prevent students from carrying guns on campus for protection, most also outlaw Mace, OC/Pepper spray, personal tasers, etc. So kids can’t protect themselves.

Should we force colleges to run ANNUAL background checks on students looking for criminal and mental instability?

Here is a case of a kid who was caught BEFORE going crazy and killing others. But its interesting if you read the full stories, this kid is clearly a criminal, he is apparently linked to several robberies around the town.

Its also interesting that the pro-active steps taken by the college are not listed in any news story I can find other than they sent out a memo to staff??? How would that protect people!

[INDENT] :khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=9875989

Gonzaga Student Expelled
Posted: Feb 19, 2009 06:34 PM

[size=1]SPOKANE, Wash. - The Spokane Fire Department’s Special Investigation Unit (SIU) received a telephone call from Gonzaga Security regarding a Molotov cocktail device that had been found by a custodian in the parking lot of Catherine-Monica Hall on campus. The device had been secured by GU and taken as evidence. The subsequent investigation and a tip led to the discovery of similar prohibitive items inside the dorm room of Timothy D. Parker, 18-year-old former GU Student. Throughout the stages of the investigation, the SIU officers secured several items as evidence including stolen firearms and ammunition from an off-campus location.[/size]
[size=1] . . . [/size]
[size=1] Gonzaga Administration has taken proactive, deliberate steps to assure the safety of everyone and we are extremely appreciative of their cooperation.[/size]

[/INDENT]Another version of the story:[INDENT]

[size=1] kxly.com/global/story.asp?s=9874803[/size]
[size=5]GU student linked to Molotov cocktail[/size]
[size=1]Posted: Feb 19, 2009 02:59 PM [/size]
[size=1]Updated: Feb 19, 2009 06:34 PM [/size]
[size=1] http://kxly.images.worldnow.com/images/212640_G.jpghttp://kxly.images.worldnow.com/images/static/gfx/pxl_trans.gif[/size]

        [size=2][size=1] SPOKANE -- A Gonzaga University student has been expelled after an investigation revealed that person had in his possesion multiple stolen weapons, ammunition and other prohibited items.  The investigation began when a telephone call tipped off investigators that a Molotov cocktail had been found in a parking lot at the Catherine / Monica Hall at Gonzaga University.[/size][/size]

[size=2][size=1] . . .[/size][/size]
[size=2][size=1] Authorities found prohibited items similar to the Molotov cocktail in Parker’s dorm room. Schaeffer declined to specify the nature of the prohibited items since the investigation is ongoing. [/size][/size]
[/INDENT]

No. In my opinion, it would be very costly relative to the benefit. On the other hand, should we run tests on the professors as well?

You might also note that generally, Universities are “gun free zones.” Or as I like to say, “Victim Zones.”

The last thing they are going to do is take active steps to protect the students.

I live near a campus. There was a murder here, last year. The police made an announcement that everything was under control. Gave statements giving the impression that the murderer was known to them, and also known to the victim. Ends up that the murderer did not know the victim, was caught 40 miles away, trying to force another woman into his car. The “press conference” was all a lie. They had no idea who done it and there was a murdered on the loose. Nothing was under control.

I have to take exception to this. None of the gun owners I know carry their guns everywhere they go, and I seriously doubt that there are many students who would carry a loaded gun to class, even if it was permitted.

Unless there was a gun owner sitting in class at Virginia Tech with his pistol loaded, he wasn’t going to do anybody any good.

Even if guns were allowed in the dorms, who brings a gun to class with them? I’ve actually visited a school that had gun lockers for the students, too, and if they had allowed guns at Virginia Tech, do you know where all the guns would have been? In the gun lockers.

Please do not buy into these hysterical and malevolent allegations being leveled at this young man by the media; the truth in this matter is no where near what is being reported by the press. He is being railroaded. He is a fine young man in need of your prayers.

SPOKANE – A Gonzaga University student has been expelled after an investigation revealed that person had in his possesion multiple stolen weapons, ammunition and other prohibited items. The investigation began when a telephone call tipped off investigators that a Molotov cocktail had been found in a parking lot at the Catherine / Monica Hall at Gonzaga University.
. . .
Authorities found prohibited items similar to the Molotov cocktail in Parker’s dorm room. Schaeffer declined to specify the nature of the prohibited items since the investigation is ongoing.

Sounds like a nice young man. After all, just because he has stolen weapons and ammunition, doesn’t make him a bad boy. :rolleyes:

Jim

You are being judgmental and accusatory. You have limited knowledge of the “facts” and much of what the media is reporting is false and blown way out of proportion. No guns were found on campus. Authorities would not have let him go if he were a danger to others.

As a college student, I think guns would cause way more harm than good. College students get drunk and do stupid things - I can see so many gun accidents happening. They also think the world is over after a break up, a failed test, what have you. It’s an age at which a lot of kids struggle with doubts about their future and many contemplate suicide - having guns around doesn’t seem like a good idea. So many college students I know are nowhere near stable - adding guns in to the mix to solve the problem of the horrific but occasional college shooter wouldn’t solve anything.

I’m judging according to the information at hand.

If you have a news article or proof which refutes this one, please provide it.

Jim

I take exception to this. I know a number of gun owners that carry their weapon pretty much everywhere they go. So if they were in class, they would have their weapon. It wouldn’t matter if they were a student or a teacher.

Quotes from Ann Coulter’s book
If Democrats had any Brains, they would be Republicans.

In 2007, a deranged student killed 32 people at VA Tech-30 of them in a very short period of time in a single building- before killing himself.
At Columbine High School in 1999, two students killed 12 people before ending the carnage themselves by committing suicide.
In 1998, two students in Craighaed County, Arkansas, killed 5 people, including 4 little girls, before deciding to attempt an escape.
In 1996 in Dunblane, Scotland, an adult shooter killed 17, then committed suicide.

In 2002, an immigrant student in VA started shooting his classmates at the Appalachian School of Law, Two of his classmates in another part of the building retrieved guns from their cars, approached the killer, and forced him to drop his weapon, allowing a third classmate to tackle him. 3 dead
In 1997, a student at Pearl High School in Mississippi had already shot several people at his high school and was headed for the junior high school when assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a .45 pistol from his car and pointed it at the gunman’s head, ending the slaughter. 2 dead
A few days later, a student attending a junior high school dance at a restaurant in Edinboro, Pennsylvania, started shooting, whereupon the restaurant owner pulled out his shotgun, chased the gunman from the restaurant, and captured him for the police. 1 dead

As Ann Coulter says.

When you need a gun, nothing else will do.

If I were a student, I would want someone legally armed, in my classroom. If that person was me, all the better.

The schools wouldn’t need to conduct back round checks on everyone. Just allow those with Conceal Carry Permits to carry on the campus.

[quote=siamesecat]As a college student, I think guns would cause way more harm than good. College students get drunk and do stupid things - I can see so many gun accidents happening. They also think the world is over after a break up, a failed test, what have you. It’s an age at which a lot of kids struggle with doubts about their future and many contemplate suicide - having guns around doesn’t seem like a good idea. So many college students I know are nowhere near stable - adding guns in to the mix to solve the problem of the horrific but occasional college shooter wouldn’t solve anything.
[/quote]

As I have shown above, that is not the case. When legal guns are present the number of deaths go down. And, students that want to commit suicide, will do so whether a gun is available or not.

Maryjo

I take exception to this. I know a number of gun owners that carry their weapon pretty much everywhere they go. So if they were in class, they would have their weapon. It wouldn’t matter if they were a student or a teacher.

They carry their guns on school grounds which is prohibited?

Where’s that thread about gun owners observing the law more than non-gun owners? :rolleyes:

As Ann Coulter says.

If I were a student, I would want someone legally armed, in my classroom. If that person was me, all the better.

If I were a student, I wouldn’t want to worry about who has a gun.
Allowing students to carry concealed weapons won’t eliminate the nut that wants to blow people away, it will make it easier for him.

The schools wouldn’t need to conduct back round checks on everyone. Just allow those with Conceal Carry Permits to carry on the campus.

:eek:

As I have shown above, that is not the case. When legal guns are present the number of deaths go down. And, students that want to commit suicide, will do so whether a gun is available or not.

Please provide statistics that show when students carry guns onto school grounds, the number of deaths goes down. :rolleyes:

Jim

No, they, I don’t. What I said originally, was that IF schools wanted to take overt action to protect their students, they wouldn’t ban weapons. You said that no one you knows carries their weapon everywhere. I do know people like that and they would be quite willing to carry on campus.

If I were a student, I wouldn’t want to worry about who has a gun.
Allowing students to carry concealed weapons won’t eliminate the nut that wants to blow people away, it will make it easier for him.

In what way? Is everyone that has a permit to carry a concealed weapon a nut? How about you giving me some statistics on people with concealed carry permits that have blown people away without cause. Having someone with a gun, will stop that nut. If I happen to be carrying a weapon, and am present while someone is going nuts with a gun. Chances are, less people will be dead in the end. I have already shown some instances of that.

:eek:
Please provide statistics that show when students carry guns onto school grounds, the number of deaths goes down. :rolleyes:

Jim

I don’t know that there are statistics for schools. As far as I know, there aren’t any. Because schools are victims zones. But there are for states.
humanevents.com/article.php?id=30405

Allowing law-abiding people to arm themselves offers more than piece of mind for those individuals – it pays off for everybody through lower crime rates. **Statistics from the FBI’s Uniformed Crime Report of 2007 show that states with right-to-carry laws have a 30% lower homicide rate, 46% lower robbery, and 12% lower aggravated assault rate and a 22% lower overall violent crime rate than do states without such laws. ** That is why more and more states have passed right-to-carry laws over the past decade.
Another study makes the moral case for expanding and enhancing right-to-carry laws. A report by John Lott, Jr. and David Mustard of the University of Chicago released in 1996 found “that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths.” Further, the Lott-Mustard study noted, “If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravate assaults would have been avoided yearly.”

Think about it. Nearly 8,000 of our fellow citizens have died between 1992 and 1996 because of the irrational fear that law-abiding Americans would abuse their right to self defense.** In fact concealed carry permit holders are more law-abiding than the rest of the public. For example, Florida, which has issued more carry permits than any state has issued 1.36 million permits, but revoked only 165 (0.01%) due to gun crimes by permit-holders**.

And you don’t have to look for the statistic about people with concealed carry permits, it is right there.

You quote Ann Coulter. . . PLEASE!!

Do you really expect people to care what that thing thinks?

Just another bulldog with lipstick.

RUFF RUFF!

Sitting in class with a loaded weapon? Why?

If I were a student, I would want someone legally armed, in my classroom. If that person was me, all the better.

Again, why? I’m in a sleepy little town in southern Pennsylvania. I look around at what my fellow students are doing on Saturday nights, and I don’t want them with guns.

The schools wouldn’t need to conduct back round checks on everyone. Just allow those with Conceal Carry Permits to carry on the campus.

Great, that’s just what I want. The drunk fraternity brothers from [insert Greek letters] carrying pistols around on the weekends. Hoo, boy, I’ll really feel safe then. Not only will people be vomiting all over the bath room, stealing rugs, and urinating in the hall, they’ll be carrying lethal weapons as they do so.

I’ll take the slim chance that there’s a lunatic on campus waiting to snap over the much larger chance that if you give everybody guns, some drunk moron will blow his own brains out.

So you are killing the messenger? Whether you like her or not, her research is documented.

I noticed that you didn’t say anything about the FBI stats. They basically say the same thing. Legally armed citizens lower crime rates.

[quote=Lujack]Again, why? I’m in a sleepy little town in southern Pennsylvania. I look around at what my fellow students are doing on Saturday nights, and I don’t want them with guns.

I’ll take the slim chance that there’s a lunatic on campus waiting to snap over the much larger chance that if you give everybody guns, some drunk moron will blow his own brains out.

[/quote]

You must not have read what I posted.

Another study makes the moral case for expanding and enhancing right-to-carry laws. A report by John Lott, Jr. and David Mustard of the University of Chicago released in 1996 found “that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths.” Further, the Lott-Mustard study noted, “If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravate assaults would have been avoided yearly.”

That means that you are more likely to have your brains blown out by some nut than by someone that is legally allowed to carry a gun.

I think is is funny how everyone is “up in arms” about this. You do know that all states, save two, allow their citizens to carry a weapon concealed. There are different laws about how to do it. Unless you live in one of those two states or are on a gun free campus, you are around people that are armed, and you don’t know it. :shrug:

Jim
Contrary to popular misconception, it is legal for many people to carry guns onto school grounds. I carry a gun daily onto school property, and do so legally. I’m a civilian, no connection to the school other than my daughter attends classes there. Laws do vary by state, you must abide by your state laws. FWIW, this morning I had 2 semi-auto rifles in my SUV and a Detonics 1911 style Combat Master on my hip. This afternoon when I picked her up I had only 1 semi-auto rifle, and the same Detonics on my hip. I had a very pleasant conversation with a couple other dads while we all waited for our children to come out of their Student Council meeting this afternoon.

Further, it should be noted that civilians who are NOT students can carry on many/most college campuses. Very few states allow students to carry guns on campus but do allow other civilians to carry on campus grounds.

You need to better understand the details of the laws before you start with your sarcasm and disparaging comments if we are to take anything you write seriously.

All that said to correct you, I’d also like to point out that this thread is not about carrying guns on college campuses. This kid allegedly had bombs in the form of maltof cocktails on campus. Anything related to firearms that he did was off campus and no guns were found on campus. He may have been involved in criminal break ins, thefts, etc. I’m not saying he’s a good kid, bad kid or otherwise kid. I’m asking, for the safety of our kids, if all students should have annual background checks before they are admitted onto campuses.

Well, its a 100% residential school that allows no one to live off campus (even the frat houses belong to the school), and guns aren’t allowed in dorms, so unless there’s a secret gun locker somewhere in town, there is nobody armed.

At colleges it is typically a “policy” not a “law” that forces people to be unarmed. Parents, town residents and visitors may well be armed, and legally so. Again, state laws vary so I don’t know what the laws are where this event occurred, but do not think that just because the college disarms students that others are also similarly bound by those policies when they have a legal right to carry in that state.

Actually, the Lott and Mustard study has generated a fair amount of criticism, and the truth is that the evidence on the effect of concealed carry laws on violence is mixed at best.

Well to be honest about it the studies on BOTH sides of the issue have generated a lot of criticism from the OTHER side. So when you say that the Lott/Mustard study generated criticism, it is coming from the anti-gun crowd. It should be noted also that Don Kates did a study to prove guns are a problem and he was so convinced to the opposite by his own study that he is now an advocate of gun rights. I’d be willing to bet that we can each cite studies that disprove the other side’s study. One thing that I do, however, find interesting is the Kellerman study that showed that a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to injure a resident in the home . . . it is an oft cited study by the anti-gun side of the issue. What they don’t further show is that Kellerman has revised his study several times, each time downward after it was debunked by other scholars, and finally admitted that he’d want his wife to have a gun if she were in the home alone.

But again, the story is more about the homemade bomb as NO GUNS were found on campus. Not sure why so many seem hung up on the secondary issue here.

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