Should Fatima Be Open to All Religions?

Should we be allowing one of the most sacred places in Christianity to be open for all other religions to worship, some of which are pagan in nature. A place where our Lady gave us specific instructions on the conversion of Russia and warned us of being corrupted from within? What is going on in the Church, our Holy Father allowing this. St Pius X was in Portugal protesting this, and the Vatican would not even meet with them to discuss, but had plenty of time to meet with the Daili Lama. —Any thoughts???

[left]FRONT PAGE STORY - 16/10/2004[/left]

[left]Bishop – Fátima open to all[/left]

http://the-news.net/images/bullet-bigblack.gif**The Bishop of Leiria-Fátima, D. Serafim Ferreira e Silva, has this week admitted to the existence of “enemies” of Fátima, saying many emanate from within the Catholic Church. Speaking at a press conference held at the Sanctuary, the Bishop preferred not to identify these “enemies”, saying only that some of them are involved in “science or pseudo-science”. He added he has personal instructions from the Pope to promote interfaith dialogue.

The Bishop used the conference to highlight the fact that the Fátima Sanctuary is open to all, including the “Dalai Lama or an agnostic, and to those who believe and to those who do not”.

[font=MS Sans Serif][size=2]He further explained that he has “personal instructions” from the Pope regarding inter-religious dialogue.

[font=MS Sans Serif][size=2]The Bishop was reacting to recent news reports that stated the Vatican had reacted negatively to visits at the Sanctuary by the Dalai Lama and Hindu priests, along with the staging of an interfaith congress at Fátima a year ago.

[font=MS Sans Serif][size=2]The Bishop also reiterated his full confidence in the Rector of the Sanctuary, Luciano Guerra, during the press conference, shortly before the two clergymen prepared to lead the annual October 13 procession to the Sanctuary.

[font=MS Sans Serif][size=2]Furthermore, D. Serafim Ferreira e Silva also presented the minutes of the 2003 congress, citing the introduction of Bishop Michael Fitzgerald, who wrote: “It is obvious that the a Sanctuary such as Fátima, founded on an experience of faith, has to open itself to all categories of people”.

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I think it should remain a Catholic space. In my opinion, interfaith dialogue is one thing, compromise that extreme is another and just goes too far. :nope:


"Tennis Racket" Sanctuary for Fatima, Portugal
Approved by the Vatican to Replace the Traditional Shrine by 2007

The Vatican has awarded to a Greek Orthodox architect, in an international architecture competition that lasted four years, the $45,000,000 contract for an ultra-futuristic casino-like Fatima Interfaith Shrine Basilica, to be completed around 2007, with lots of computer programmed lights (Vegas Strip?), which will hold 10,000 Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Eastern Orthodox, Buddhist, African, Pagan, Protestant – and perhaps a few “Catholic” pilgrims so that everyone can worship their various gods there and can take part in oecumeniacal “dialogue” there.

Any attempts to convert non-Catholics to the true Faith are forbidden because all religions are considered equal in the eyes of God, says the New Vatican, and all religions are inspired by the “Spirit of Vatican II” . Moreover, since truth is relative and changes constantly in the eyes of man, every 25 years there will be renovations in the shrine to adjust to the ever-changing “truth.” Quo vadis, Roma?

It will comfort you to know that the public school system is supporting the Vatican in its campaign to put over the Modernist error that “everybody worships the same god” (though they never specify which god this is, as exemplified by the pope’s bending over in reverence to kiss the blasphemous Koran.

A teacher at Covina, California’s Royal Oak Intermediate School sent a note home to parents, telling them that Mohammedans fast from sun-up to sun-down during the month of Ramadan. The teacher then told parents that their children could earn extra credit by choosing to “fast for one, two, or three days.”

“America’s Christian children had better not even utter the name Jesus Christ in public schools without persecution and prosecution by the ‘separation of church and state’ zealots,” a group called the American Middle-East Christian Association wrote in a press release. The group said it would “conduct a peaceful educational seminar.”

A peaceful educational seminar? If that teacher had instead sent a note home giving extra credit for fasting in Lent and abstaining from fleshmeat on Fridays, he’d be out in a New York second. Those parents should be demanding that crucifixes be hung in every classroom next to the picture of Mohammed. To take a leaf from George Orwell, it seems that in the Vatican, as in public schools, all gods are equal. It’s just that some gods are more equal than others!

Does the office of the Pope still impact the entire world? In short, the answer is “Yes”.

For instance the US Bishops bend over backward, go to extreme when the Pope said the vernacular languages could be used at Mass. He said “may”. But the overeaction of the Bishops did away with the Latin Mass.

The Pope kisses a Koran, and Public teachers put the picture of Mohammed in the classroom. At Fatima they open the doors for Religions that don’t in Jesus and public schools excuse Moslem students for prayer…but they do not excuse the Catholics do they?

Small gesture by the Pope become magnifyied around the world. Why does he do these things? The Popes before JP II would NOT do these things.

Popes before JPII would not do these things, because they could not and should not do these things. Maybe our current pontiff should pay special attention to historical statutes.

[left]Catholic Family News Special Report
[/left]
Pictures of a Desecration

Photo Report of Hindu Ritual at Fatima

by John Vennari

(article appears below photos)

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm01.jpg

May 5: Portugal’s SIC television announces its
coverage of an “uncommon ecumenical experience”.
There will be a Hindu ritual at the Fatima Shrine.

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm02.jpg

**Morning prayers in the Radha Krishna temple in Lisbon
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm03.jpg

**“All the invocations of the pagans are hateful
to God because all their gods are devils”

  • Saint Francis Xavier**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm04.jpg

** A young Hindu woman explains the importance
of their various gods**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm05.jpg

**About 60 Hindus travel by bus to Fatima
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm06.jpg

Arrival at the Fatima Shrine

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm07.jpg

**The Hindus bring a gift of flowers. For them, Our Lady
of Fatima is a manifestation of one of their gods.
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm08.jpg

**SIC broacasting says, "This is a unique event in the
history of the Sanctuary and of devotion itself…
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm09.jpg

…the Hindu priest, the Shastri recites at the (Catholic)
altar the Shanti Pa, the prayer for peace."

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm10.jpg

**The Hindu ritual — a ceremony to false gods — desecrates
the Fatima Shrine, making it necessary for the chapel
to be re-consecrated.
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm11.jpg

The “Hindu family of Porgutal” worshipping at the
shrine after the Hindu ceremony.

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm12.jpg

Shrine Rector Guerra speaks approvingly about
the Hindu worship at Fatima

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm13.jpg

Crossing the esplanade to meet the Bishop
and the Shrine Rector

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm14.jpg

**Received by the Bishop of Fatima. SIC explains, "the
Hindu pilgrims are received as if they were an embassy,
an unheard of gesture…
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm15.jpg

**…which can be understood as an invitation for other visits"
This means that the pagan desecration of Fatima
is likely to happen again.
**

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm16.jpg

The Bishop of Fatima says,
“We do not want to be fundamentalists”

http://www.oltyn.com/HindFtm17.jpg

**Shrine Rector Guerra receives from the Hindus
a shawl covered with verses of the Baghwad Gita,
a “sacred book” of Hinduism whose basic message
is, all of life is an illusion.
**

Interesting. I wonder what the meaning of all this is? It’s really perplexing. Also, it adds fuel to the accusation by Protestants that Catholic statues are pagan worship.

I just don’t know what to make of this. I have respect for Hindu people, but this is weird… :frowning:

[quote=CrusaderNY]Should we be allowing one of the most sacred places in Christianity to be open for all other religions to worship, some of which are pagan in nature.

You posted the report of the event and its immediate aftermath; but you did not publish any of the follow up stories. Heads were about to roll unless the group in charge in Fatima promised to cease ever doing anything like this again. Quietly it has been let slip from blessed memory but make no mistake about it - there are people within the church absolutely furious and supporters of the Fatima movement who will see to it that any further shennanigans makes its way in a fast report to Rome. They were also given to understand that if anything is repeated a new group will be put in charge of the shrine - since this would be a financial loss they don’t even want to think about - I don’t think we’ll see anymore of it hopefully.
[/quote]

FATIMA TO BE AN INTER-RELIGIOUS SANCTUARY The following information is taken from Portugal’s National Weekend Newspaper, the Portugal News, of November 1. The height of the insult took place when the shrine Rector, Msgr. Luciano Guerra, promised that this sacrilege was not going to be a one time event. In effect, he indicated that it would be an ongoing reality when he announced, with these words, that an interfaith stadium would be built immediately adjacent to the existing shrine: *“The future of Fatima, or the adoration of God and His mother at this holy Shrine, must pass through the creation of a shrine where different religions can mingle. The inter-religious dialogue in Portugal, and in the Catholic Church, is still in an embryonic phase, but the shrine of Fatima is not indifferent to this fact and is already open to being a universalistic place of vocation.” *Announcing that Fatima is not only a Muslim name, but also the name of a daughter of Mohammed, he explained that this shows that the sanctuary must be opened to the coexistence of different faiths and beliefs, saying: “We can therefore presume it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that things happen in this way”.

Ansshok Ansraj, the Hindu representative, explained how millions of Hindus in Asia receive “positive vibrations” from visits to Marian sanctuaries, without endangering their Hindu “faith”. One of the principal ‘Catholic’ speakers was the Belgium Jesuit theologian, Father Jacques Dupuis, who insisted on the unity of the world’s religions: “ The religion of the future will be a general converging of religions in a universal Christ that will satisfy all”. He went on to explain what he meant by this, developing the themes taught in the Vatican II declarations on Religious Liberty and Ecumenism:

The other religious traditions are part of God’s plan for humanity and the Holy Spirit is operating and present in Buddhist, Hindu and other sacred writings of Christian and non-Christian faiths as well…The consequence of all this is that the missionary spirit is destroyed. Why, indeed, in the light of all this, would a person have to become a Catholic? This was expressed explicitly in the official declaration that came from the conference, containing as it did, the following statement of non-proselytism:

Of all the efforts to neutralize the message of Fatima, surely this ecumenical endeavor must be the most horrifyingly perverse. Nothing could more effectively destroy Our Lady’s call for prayer, penance, conversion, devotion to the Immaculate Heart and the daily recitation of the Holy Rosary. Firstly there was the refusal to publish the Third Secret; secondly were the partial consecrations of Russia by Pius XII and of the world by John Paul II, and then the vague *“entrustment” *of October 2000, none of them being the collegial consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart that Our Lady had requested. There was likewise the June 2000 publication of a version of the Third Secret that might indeed be a vision received by Sister Lucia, but is not the brief 25 lines of the Third Secret, nor “the words which Our Lady confided as a secret to the three little shepherds in the Cova da Iria”, as it was described by the Vatican in John XXIII’s Press Release on the subject in 1960, nor the words of Our Lady explaining the devotion to the Immaculate Heart through which the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved. Then came the 2002 Apostolic Letter on the Rosary entirely omitting mention of the Fatima prayer that traditionally we recite after each decade. Now finally, it is the converting of Fatima into an ecumenical center.

**
**

[quote=HagiaSophia]You posted the report of the event and its immediate aftermath; but you did not publish any of the follow up stories. Heads were about to roll unless the group in charge in Fatima promised to cease ever doing anything like this again. Quietly it has been let slip from blessed memory but make no mistake about it - there are people within the church absolutely furious and supporters of the Fatima movement who will see to it that any further shennanigans makes its way in a fast report to Rome. They were also given to understand that if anything is repeated a new group will be put in charge of the shrine - since this would be a financial loss they don’t even want to think about - I don’t think we’ll see anymore of it hopefully.
[/quote]

[quote=CrusaderNY]FATIMA TO BE AN INTER-RELIGIOUS SANCTUARY The following information is taken from Portugal’s National Weekend Newspaper,

I repeat: you posted about the intital story and again you have posted about its aftermath - the post I put up was some time after it had occurred, been denied, was investigated, verified and then the warnings went out.

oltyn.com/FatimaSept29.htm

is one of the FOUR stories I read on it. It appears somewhat fruitless to me to stir pots which are no longer boiling.
[/quote]

[quote=HagiaSophia]I repeat: you posted about the intital story and again you have posted about its aftermath - the post I put up was some time after it had occurred, been denied, was investigated, verified and then the warnings went out.

oltyn.com/FatimaSept29.htm

is one of the FOUR stories I read on it. It appears somewhat fruitless to me to stir pots which are no longer boiling.
[/quote]

Given other posts that CrusaderNY has posted, stirring non-boiling pots is a routine pasttime…I wonder if (s)he really is Catholic, or just out to cause dissent and discord…there is a Name for that…

[quote=deborah1313]Given other posts that CrusaderNY has posted, stirring non-boiling pots is a routine pasttime…I wonder if (s)he really is Catholic, or just out to cause dissent and discord…there is a Name for that…
[/quote]

There are some posters that mistake heat for light. :slight_smile:

These news are from September, what is the situation now?, greetings

Ok, so what you are saying is that after repeated statements and declarations that Fatima is going to be open to ALL religions, that the Vatican has recanted?> You are wrong. Show me where they have stated that it will not be “Ecumenical”. You cant that is why.

[quote=HagiaSophia]I repeat: you posted about the intital story and again you have posted about its aftermath - the post I put up was some time after it had occurred, been denied, was investigated, verified and then the warnings went out.

oltyn.com/FatimaSept29.htm

is one of the FOUR stories I read on it. It appears somewhat fruitless to me to stir pots which are no longer boiling.
[/quote]

Dated Ocober 16th in the Portugal News

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Bishop – Fátima open to all
**The Portugal News ^ **| 10/16/2004

Posted on 10/15/2004 7:07:00 PM PDT by Land of the Irish

The Bishop of Leiria-Fátima, D. Serafim Ferreira e Silva, has this week admitted to the existence of “enemies” of Fátima, saying many emanate from within the Catholic Church. Speaking at a press conference held at the Sanctuary, the Bishop preferred not to identify these “enemies”, saying only that some of them are involved in “science or pseudo-science”. He added he has personal instructions from the Pope to promote interfaith dialogue.

The Bishop used the conference to highlight the fact that the Fátima Sanctuary is open to all, including the “Dalai Lama or an agnostic, and to those who believe and to those who do not”.

He further explained that he has “personal instructions” from the Pope regarding inter-religious dialogue.

The Bishop was reacting to recent news reports that stated the Vatican had reacted negatively to visits at the Sanctuary by the Dalai Lama and Hindu priests, along with the staging of an interfaith congress at Fátima a year ago.

The Bishop also reiterated his full confidence in the Rector of the Sanctuary, Luciano Guerra, during the press conference, shortly before the two clergymen prepared to lead the annual October 13 procession to the Sanctuary. Furthermore, D. Serafim Ferreira e Silva also presented the minutes of the 2003 congress, citing the introduction of Bishop Michael Fitzgerald, who wrote: “It is obvious that the a Sanctuary such as Fátima, founded on an experience of faith, has to open itself to all categories of people”.

Fatima Archbishop Exposes Pope as Behind Fatima Desecration

While sources were proclaiming “Vatican Calls for Resignation of Fatima Bishop and Shrine Rector,” The bishop himself reported that the pope himself supported the oecumenical desecration going on at Fatima, where the traditional shrine is being turned into an oecumenical nightmare.

The Bishop of Leiria-Fatima, D. Serafim Ferreira e Silva, in response to reports that the pope was purportedly unhappy with his “oecumenical” gestures at Fatima, retorted at a press conference reported by The Portugal News that he had received “personal instructions from the pope to promote the interfaith dialogue.” It was in obeying these papal instructions that he welcomed a Hindu priest to offer pagan chant from the Altar of the Apparitions and staged an “oecumenical conference” last year at which pagans were prominent participants. The pope is personally championing the building of the Oecumenical Temple at Fatima, the installation of St. Peter’s altar stone there, and the celebration of Msss there.

The Vatican bishop of Fatima used the press conference to highlight the fact that the Fatima sanctuary is open to the “Dalai Lama or an agnostic, and to those who believe and to those who do not.” In other words, Our Lady’s altar that was first turned over from Traditionals to to the Novus Ordo is now being relegated more broadly to outright pagans and unbelievers. This, as reported earlier, the Dalai Lama was afterwards allowed to desecrate Our Lady’s altar at the cathedral in Mexico City.

So it appears the pope’s supposed dissatisfaction was apparently a ruse to calm down the strong opposition that the “oecumenization” of Fatima has engendered… The pope has still not stopped the building of the Oecumenical Temple there. We wait, watch and see.

[quote=HagiaSophia]I repeat: you posted about the intital story and again you have posted about its aftermath - the post I put up was some time after it had occurred, been denied, was investigated, verified and then the warnings went out.

oltyn.com/FatimaSept29.htm

is one of the FOUR stories I read on it. It appears somewhat fruitless to me to stir pots which are no longer boiling.
[/quote]

[quote=Franze]These news are from September, what is the situation now?, greetings
[/quote]

The link I posted was from their November issue which offered the upate on what had happened after the event, the various press conferences that were held, the denials, the corrections and all the other reports which went along with it.

As I understand it, the Vatican will let the present rector serve out his term and retire gracefully “saving face” but there is to be no repetition of such excessive events. It pretty much will follow the line of what happened at OL of Guadalupe in Mexico. The Vatican will let the whole thing gently die away and then quietly replace him when his retirement date comes.

You continue to post reports about the immediate aftermath as if they were the last word when in fact theywere part of the fallout. The rector was trying to defend much of the ciriticism coming his way and you appear to be the only one who fell for his rather weak interpretation of a rather inocuous permission letter…

The pope offers approval to clerics offering to hold an ecumenical service as long as certain boundaries are not passed and others adhered to. That individuals abused this, that it went too far is not in dispute. That you continue to try and make May and September news a boiling pot and accuse the Holy Father of a “ruse” begins to sound like SSPX - Do you belong to them? Or are you a member or the RCC which travels under the Papal authority of John Paul II?

[quote=CrusaderNY]Ok, so what you are saying is that after repeated statements and declarations that Fatima is going to be open to ALL religions, that the Vatican has recanted?> You are wrong. Show me where they have stated that it will not be “Ecumenical”. You cant that is why.
[/quote]

I repeat most every Catholic facility is open these days to ecumenical gatherings. There are limitations and permissions. I do not need to “prove” a non-event to you.

You begin to sound like another poster we used to have who tried to pretend he was RC and used to run around posting what he thought were “scandals” – as the good Book says, by their fruits you shall know them.,

I am loyal and am obedient to the Holy Father, but I firmly believe V2 and his continued push to Ecumenize the world and weaken our faith are way off base. As far as I reminding you of some other poster here, you remind me of a Catholic who is willing to sell out their religion just to be with the “in crowd”. Our Lord never promised us that being a Catholic was going to be easy, and we are not always going to be liked for what we stand for, but I am against what our Holy Father is doing in allowing any ceremony in any of our churches, and against our watering down of the faith, as he is now preaching, what many in the past, would consider heresy. Now that I have had to defend myself that I dont belong to some St Pius group, I want you to prove to me that you are not a Protestant pretending to be a Catholic, or worse yet a Moslem because you sure do sound like One!

[quote=HagiaSophia]You continue to post reports about the immediate aftermath as if they were the last word when in fact theywere part of the fallout. The rector was trying to defend much of the ciriticism coming his way and you appear to be the only one who fell for his rather weak interpretation of a rather inocuous permission letter…

The pope offers approval to clerics offering to hold an ecumenical service as long as certain boundaries are not passed and others adhered to. That individuals abused this, that it went too far is not in dispute. That you continue to try and make May and September news a boiling pot and accuse the Holy Father of a “ruse” begins to sound like SSPX - Do you belong to them? Or are you a member or the RCC which travels under the Papal authority of John Paul II?
[/quote]

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