Should I continue with this?


Any comments would be appreciated, positive or negative.

Is there any point continuing after a reply is received? Would it do anyone any good? (Except for myself getting a better grounding in answering objections to catholicism)

At one point the only Bible I read from at home was a Dake Study Bible and though I disagree with him on lots of points, on some things he did a fine job. If only there was a catholic study bible as good with so many cross references, studies, Greek/Hebrew meanings, incredibly useful indexes, extra information. I disagreed on some points even when reading him.

Nowadays I neglect Dake in favour of the New Jerusalem and the New American (with studies on each chapter/section). And according to Dake of course I am now a heretic and part of the Babylonian church. Oh well, I would have said that of catholics at one point.


Your posts were excellent, asteroid, but obviously fell on deaf ears. It appears that those folks are going to believe what they want to believe. You’re just confusing them with the facts.


You did really well in your replies but with people as hatefilled as them it will take some blinding miracle flashing right in front of their noses before they think twice.

Pretty funny what that first guy said about the Pope and the Catholic Church being evil because the world loves them, he seemed to be forgetting the majority of protestants, atheists and, ironically, himself and his buddies.


I feel the pain and the confusion. On Tuesday, a guy I work with came up and told me he didn’t understand all this fuss about JP2 death. “How do you mourn for someone you didn’t know?” I just stood there dumbfounded :eek:
Finally I told him, “JP2 was a kind, gentle man of peace that did many great things, some of which we will not probably know about for long time to come.” I then told him, that I felt sorry for him that he couldn’t feel what millions are feeling.
This guy is also studying to be a minister is some small Protestant “church” and thinks Martin Luther hung the moon. :frowning:


The problem, asteroid, is that when the Protestants broke from the church, they also broke from the magesterium which is guided into all truth per the words of the Lord. They therefore have half the truth.

Their problem is the other half. The “gaps” in the truth they lack are filled with the numerous, sometimes incoherent, personal interpretations their numerous denominations perpetually spawn.

When they left the “authorized” heirarchy of Christ’s church on earth, they needed to place that authority somewhere else. They chose to invest all authority on earth to their bibles. (Sola Scriptura) They then decided to “adjust” the words of the bible so it would better present the beliefs they have personally decided on.

The funny thing about all of this is; Christ gave the promise of the comforter to the apostles, i.e. to man. The pope represents this because he is a man who is the shepard of many men and women. The Protestants gave supreme authority to a book almost as if they are proclaiming… We trust no man!

As far as continuing with these people, I would like to offer some advice. First, be patient. Most of those people are only interested in attacking the church, which is the body of Christ. Since they attack the body, they are not a part of it.

Second, you will get frustrated because they will deny the validity of even the most obvious truth you offer them. This frustration will stem from the feeling inside that you are doing no good in these discussions and that your efforts are wasted. Don’t hope to see anyone convert to the church because of your efforts. Simply remember that you are planting a seed that some day, and you will probably never see it happen, may grow in one or two of them and lead them into the church, or at least away from hateful attacks against it. (If your efforts fail to make a Protestant Catholic, it is still a good thing if you make an anti-Catholic a Christian.)

Always preach the same thing which should be in accord with the church’s official teaching. Your best weapon against Protestant multiplicity is Catholic stability.



I’m curious, what was the word that the admin had to “BLEEP” out?

Good job by the way, I love how you refute a point they make, then they just fnd another site that makes the same refuted point over again.

Also sounds like “Brother” Dake’s book is just another regurgitation of Loraine Boettner’s Roman Catholicism. There’s a good tract about it here and it’s also discussed in length in Karl Keating’s Catholicism and Fundamentalism. If you don’t own Karl’s book, pick one up, it’s very good reading.


Many thanks for all the supportive messages and advice. I have added a little to the “debate” but reckon that from this point on I’ve given up. Check the link again and see why.

Things have gone better than last time on the board there. The rosary was mentioned and catholic doctrines and practices insulted. I defended briefly the concept of “mother of God” and said that people really ought to learn from catholic sources what catholics believe and why, before insulting them. I don’t mind people disagreeing vehemently with me but really prefer them not to disagree solely out of ignorance, an ignorance they sometimes seem intent on keeping at all costs.

The response at that time looked impressive. One of the moderators posted something that referred frequently to the Catechism and seemed written by him. Trouble was, he’d copied it and pasted it from somewhere else. When I pointed this out (it is against the board rules the same person posted!), and answered parts of the response my posts were deleted and I was banned from the board until I contacted another moderator.

Compared to that experience, things have gone really well this time! But continuing would be pointless unless, yes, there is a blinding miracle. It will be interesting to see what response there is to my final post. And yes, frustration is here a little. Seems Dake is right - whatever anyone says. There’s a tract online about the Dake Bible. The tract makes a few mistakes I think but here’s the first paragraph, which I have quickly come to agree with:

Many years ago, I became leery of the Dake’s Bible, but never really understood why. The only thing I could identify was that those who became strong in their study of Dake also became arrogant and unteachable. If Dake said it, then it really did not matter what anybody else said or what the general difference was in other Scriptures. I basically quit using the Dake’s Bible about twenty years ago and simply put it on the shelf.

This is really my first real attempt at defence of Catholicism since being received into the church at Easter. I used to be anti-catholic and fear that I was, for a time, as blind and blinkered as these people. I remember the hate in my voice once when discussing the church with a catholic monk. This attempt has taught me a lot in a short space of time.

Maybe I should order Karl Keating’s book. I’ve got a couple of them on this machine which are good. Maybe the others should be ordered too. Still waiting for Boettner’s book to turn up cheap in a second-hand shop.

Now, if you have delicate ears, do not read this next paragraph. It contains a rude word. The bleeped word. What I said was that “many people will bitch about someone…”. Please forgive me for repeating the word here.

Blessings & Thanks


Read also on the Dake discussion board why Martin Luther King wasn’t a Christian. Read how Jesus, after meeting Mary in Jn20 ascended to his father - on planet heaven - and then descended again later that day. Hmmmm.


OH MY GOSH!!! Did you see Rev. Jack’s reply? he totally ignores everything you said, and just repeats his claim that your claims are in contradiction with history! That tract has it perfectly correct, he is arrogant and unteachable.

If I didn’t know better, I would think you are on some sort of Internet version of Candid Camera.

It doesn’t seem you’ll be able to reach them no matter how much history, logic, reason, and contextual scripture interpretation you use. The only reason I would suggest you continue is that you never know who else might be reading the dialogue between you and these “Dakeians”. If there is someone who is just viewing that forum for research, you may put the voice of reason in their head before they become brainwashed by ths “Dakeian” ideology.


Nice job, Asteroid. No testiness. No tetchiness. Even. Resourced. Calm. :thumbsup:

Now: Sandals. Dust.


Yes, I just read his reply.

:banghead: :crying:

I would laugh at this if I wasn’t being so amazed.

It’s also difficult to laugh when such replies come from someone with “Rev” before their name. There is a congregation somewhere led by this man.

I give up. I haven’t got the time to use scripture, history, logic or anything else with someone so obstinately keeping his blinkers on. If anyone else wants to sign up and continue this fruitless, pointless discussion, feel free. But I wouldn’t recommend it.

It’s a shame - there are people on that site, ministers, who love God (or God as they see him), love scripture. At least one person spends 4 hours a day in prayer and bible study. If only I had the time for that. How then can they be so closed and blind to facts plainly stated? (Don’t answer that, I can work it out for myself!) Golfnut btw, who made a post in the thread, usually says pretty sensible things, like he does here. I might not agree with him on everything, but he’s sensible and rational. Don’t want to tar all board members with the same brush.

Please pray for the folks at the Dake Bible Board - and all those devoted to Dake’s writings. That eyes may be opened. I am SO glad not to be reading his Annotated Bible every day now.

Blessings & much astonishment



Thanks mercygate.

Sandals & dust it is. Feet now duly shaken and dust free. (hope you’re referring to that!)


Ok - I guess I’m out of the loop!


Asteroid, I thought your responses were very well stated - and the clincher - TRUE! It really is amazing to watch such “head in the sand” stuff! I don’t know how you do it. I finally had to leave a couple of boards because of this kind of closemindedness and hatred. Good Luck, if you continue but I suggest you “don’t throw your pearls before swine!”


WHy don’t you try the Haydock Study Bible

[quote=asteroid]Any comments would be appreciated, positive or negative.

At one point the only Bible I read from at home was a Dake Study Bible and though I disagree with him on lots of points, on some things he did a fine job. If only there was a catholic study bible as good with so many cross references, studies, Greek/Hebrew meanings, incredibly useful indexes, extra information. I disagreed on some points even when reading him.

Nowadays I neglect Dake in favour of the New Jerusalem and the New American (with studies on each chapter/section). And according to Dake of course I am now a heretic and part of the Babylonian church. Oh well, I would have said that of catholics at one point.



I like my answers short so…
adios raza!!! (bye guys)



Thanks again for supportive comments. Yes, it’s time for me to stop - but if anyone else wants to continue please feel free, there have been a few more comments. The last is just a question - “Well, did the catholic church ban the bible from laymen or not???” - if you want to answer it go ahead.

The Haydock Study Bible looks wonderful - if I ever get $128 spare to order one (and that’s a special offer) and have it sent here one may get bought. The Dake Bible I found for $27 including airmail postage from the US to the UK. Much more affordable. But faulty in far too many ways.

As for who is Dake? Try this site and click on “Dake’s Theology” in the resources section down the left hand side. Get an answer to “Who is Dake” from someone who loves him. And yes, Mr Bible is the real name of the writer of the article. That gives a good answer to the question. If the theology wasn’t screwy the Study Bible would be utterly fantastic. In some circles, especially the word of faith/prosperity preaching, Dake’s works are influential while his name is relatively unknown.


Yes asteroid, “perils before swine” remember ? :wink:


I just read the material on the Dake site…It’s pretty appalling, & even more, it is sad…I don’t really think there is much point in trying to talk to these people; they have their minds made up. (I :rolleyes: loved conflating Toledo & Toulouse, just to keep Dake honest!)
You know what I see here? I have run into this kind of (non):nope:thinking before… These people are confusing the notes in the Bible with the Bible itself!! So, if you refute one of the notes, they feel they have to practice denial, because otherwise they think they would be going against the words of Scripture…


I think you have said it all (and said it well). “RevJack” appeas to be in denial. Pray for him.

I found it pleasing to see the final post on the linked thread from “mandy.” As a one-post newbie, she(?) gives a nice epilogue stating that after following the thread with interest, she said you were attempting to be reasonable, and is (are) providing many verifiable sources of information while RevJack was simply refusing, as far as I can tell, to read said sources. It is nice to see that observation from someone who appears to have not become firmly entrenched in one camp or the other.

It appears that your theological sparring partner can’t answer her. Or perhaps, sadly, he thinks you were the one who was simply refusing and he was the reasonable one. Denial due to ignorance, I say. Let it go and pray.


Your posts giving the historical links are gone, as well as Mandy’s post. seems they don’t like the truth on that board… pity

EDIT: whoa, that’s weird, they’re back again. Nevermind


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