Should I tell a Catholic not to vote for Obama?

I have a Catholic friend who I think is going to vote for Obama. Should I tell her that it’s a sin to vote for a candidate who supports abortion and gay “marriage”?

And if I don’t tell her, would I have committed a sin for not telling her?

-Thanks

Yes You should.

With charity of course, but yes.

If She values her eternal soul, She will not vote for obama. Period.

:thumbsup:

As for a sin, I don’t know. Usually, Politics and Religion arent discussed at the “dinner table” However, my personality is a rock the boat kind of guy anyway :smiley:

For the second part of your question, I will let those more versed in Moral theology than me, to answer.

You should tell her what you said, explaining why those things are intrinsic evil that we ought to stop in any ways, and pointing out that the other candidate is not the panacea, but that this candidate will not only do nothing to prevent, but even promote those intrinsic evils.

Many Catholics do have excellent reasons to be deceived into voting for one candidate over the other. I was one of them. I still have very good reasons against the other candidate(s), but at least now I understand upon what should we ultimately make our choice…at least, I hope I do.

To instruct is a spiritual act of mercy anyways :wink:

Catholic Answers Voter’s Guide for the Serious Catholic

Is it? When the other candidate supports abortion in some cases, too? While it’s possible to vote sinfully – regardless of which candidate you vote for – it’s not necessarily a sin to vote for Obama (under a certain set of circumstances).

Is it a sin to vote for Obama? Not necessarily. Should you tell a Catholic not to vote for Obama? Why not, if that’s your opinion…!

Yes, you should.

Romney 2012.

Voting for a candidate that supports/promotes intrinsic evil is grave matter, when there is a viable alternative candidate. Knowing the difference makes this matter mortal sin.

If you do not tell your catholic friend, you are letting them fall into a trap, or a deep hole. Anyone with a modicum of compassion would help the friend avoid the pit. If you say nothing, you are not only complicit, you are not really a friend.

Does that change if the viable candidate places himself in a position of misleading people, for the appearances of being elected? If he is willing to mislead on one point, how can people be held accountable for questioning his credibility on other issues?

Doesn’t matter. We know Obama is a-ok with murder.

So it is acceptable for a candidate to do evil so that good may come from it, and a Catholic can support him?

The Church teaches that one cannot do evil so that good may come from it. How would it be permissible to support a candidate who lies, does evil, to be elected, so that good may come from it?

Also, Romney at one time said he was more pro choice than Ted Kennedy. That changed as his political aspirations changed. If he is willing to ‘bend’ the truth on one subject, how can one be held accountable for questioning his credibility on other issues?

These are important questions as the only reason I’ve considered voting for him are the people who are saying a Catholic MUST vote for Romney in this instance. My other options were not voting, or writing in another candidate. I want sincere Church teaching on the matter and not partisan explanations under the guise of Church teaching.

Even if Romney is going along more for the political gain and doesn’t completely accept it on a personal level, his policies will reflect a pro-life stance. In contrast, Obama and many of his supporters are open to, and willing to accept policy that will keep abortions in place. So even though Romney might be leaning pro-life for political purposes, his policies will take on a pro-life stance if he wants continued support.

So we can manipulate to gain an end solution? Just seems to have an element of hypocrisy to it. :shrug:

We have to be careful here. You can tell her that Obama supports gravely evil things, and that also supporting these things is gravely evil, and that according to your calculation (which you can try to convince her is correct) there is absolutely no reason to tolerate the evil that Obama supports (that is, it is clear that he is not the lesser evil).

And you can also say that it’s a sin to vote for Obama because of his gravely evil positions, knowing that they are evil (and a Catholic should know that they are evil).

But we have to be careful about saying that voting a particular way, unqualified by reasons etc, is certainly a sin.

Don’t get me wrong, I think supporting Obama is gravely wrong. It is not what we should do. I will be voting Romney. I am just wary of saying that we know that it is sinful.

Romney’s actions are on Romney. If Romney does evil so that good may come from it, he will answer for that when he stands before God.

But so long as we don’t vote for Romney because of whatever evil he will do, but as an attempt to limit evil that is done and to try to steer the country, by what little influence we have, to a slightly less disastrous course, we’re ok. We aren’t doing the evil, we aren’t condoning the evil - we’re just pushing back as much of the evil as we can. It just turns out that “as much as we can” isn’t as much as we would like.

An example: you are the pilot of a plan that terrorists have somehow managed to get a nuclear bomb onto. You can’t defuse the bomb, you have no idea how to and would probably set it off if you tried. It will go off shortly. Your plane is scheduled to land in NYC, and you are currently above outlying parts of the city. You don’t have time to fly into a completely uninhabited area. Then what you do is, you steer the plane to get as far away from as many people as you can. The bomb will go off and many will die, and you can’t stop that, but you can try your best to limit the evil that occurs to a smaller number deaths. You didn’t cause the deaths. You certainly didn’t condone them. All you did was try to lower the death count in the only way available to you.

Same concept applies. We have two presidential candidates who have the possibility of winning. Neither is pro-life. But one will kill many, many, more people than the other. All that you can do is to try to steer the election away from the person who condones mass murder to the person who condones slightly less mass murder. The evil will occur. You cannot prevent it. All you can do is avoid as much of it as possible. But in doing so, you are neither the cause of, nor condoning, the murder that will occur. That is, you are not doing bad that good may come of it. You are not doing bad at all. The candidates will if elected, but that’s on them.

These are important questions as the only reason I’ve considered voting for him are the people who are saying a Catholic MUST vote for Romney in this instance. My other options were not voting, or writing in another candidate. I want sincere Church teaching on the matter and not partisan explanations under the guise of Church teaching.

It is true that Church does not require that we vote Romney. The Church requires that we use our judgement to the best of our ability and do what we determine to be the right thing. For some of us, myself included, that means voting Romney, and there is no reason why we can’t try to convince each other that our judgements are correct and hence convince others that voting Romney is the right thing and that, that person now being convinced, it is what we are required by the Church to do. The “that person now being convinced” is the key though. If a person is not convinced that Romney is the best choice, then I may think he is wrong, or that he is not good at applying principles, or that he is illogical to some degree, but I cannot say that I know he is going against Church teaching.

But it is absolutely correct to say that, a priori and not factoring in individual judgement and the reasoning from principles that we are required to do, the Church does not require that we vote Romney. Again, I think that reasoning from principles does (generally speaking, with some exceptions that aren’t interesting) require a vote for Romney, but no other person is bound by my reasoning on the matter unless I can convince them that it is correct. At which point they would be bound by it. Which is why I try to convince them that it is correct - because I think it is and that it should be followed.

But again: any argument no more complicated than “the Church says vote Romney” is wrong.

I’m not. In this case, for this particular election voting for Obama is definitely a sin and a grave one at that. To the OP, yes go ahead and tell your friend if you get the chance. And if she’s already gone through early voting for him, tell her to get herself to confession asap.

And like others have said, no we are NOT obligated to vote for Romney.

I certainly see what you mean. I think it depends on what you are voting for from your heart, and God knows us better than we do! If a candidate truly was manipulating to make gains, it would be a difficult decision. I think you would almost have to look at the platform the candidate was running on in comparison to the other. We already know that the democratic platform runs heavily on “women’s health” which is just a blanket term for supporting abortion. The republican platform is heavily pro-life. When neither candidate looks good, I think we have to consider the platform that conforms most with church teaching, and for the Catholic Church, sanctity of life is up at the top.

Then it would be sinful for you to vote for Obama. Again, it is my position that reason clearly shows that voting for Obama is gravely wrong. And so it would be sinful for me to do so. It appears to be the same for you.

I also think that this is obvious. I cannot fathom how a person could not see that voting for Obama is gravely wrong. I would tend to think that a person who misses this is not reasoning very well at all.

But in matters of prudential judgement, it is not my judgement that is binding, nor yours, but the judgement of the voter. So while we can say with as much certainty as we say anything that is the result of our own judgement that voting for Obama is gravely wrong, we cannot say for sure, unless we somehow know (which we can’t unless they tell us) that the person involved has either neglected to consider the matter to a reasonable extend or that the person supports the evil that the president supports, that the action is sinful.

Wrong, yes. Sinful - perhaps. I would think it likely that there would be negligence involved at least, simply because the wrongness appears so obvious. But I cannot know this, and we should be careful of accusing others of sin.

But by all means, try to convince everyone you can that voting for Obama is absolutely wrong.

Who knows. But you should be told this thread violates CAF rules.

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