Should we be willing to follow the truth where ever it leds us? Yes or No


#1

Socrates once said that he was will to follow the truth where ever it led him (BTW it led to his death).

Are we willing to do the same?

If you were wrong would you want to know it? Or would you be happy to remain in error if you were happy in that error?

On another thread I was discussing Catholic Tradition with a fellow poster (that is the “big T” tradition, not the “little t” tradition). We started to discuss the truth claims of our positions when the poster posted this:

“I will never get you to believe that Protestants have legitimate reasons for distrusting oral tradition and you will never get me to believe that traditions hold the same legitimacy as scripture.”

I responded by saying that I was open to changing my position if it were proven false, and that I, like Socrates, would follow the truth where ever it led me.

So, would you do the same? Even if it led you to believe something that was uncomfortable?

On a personal note:

I became Catholic in 2001 to the amazement and disbelief of many of my closest friend. I did this because I was convinced of the truth of the Catholic Church. It was not easy, actually it was very difficult. Former Protestants will understand what I am talking about. They will understand the response you get from your Protestant friends when you decide to become a member of the…gasp!.. Catholic Church.

Peace


#2

Pope John Paul II once said: ***"****Have no fear of moving into the unknown. Simply step out fearlessly knowing that I am with you, therefore no harm can befall you; all is very, very well. Do this in complete faith and confidence."

***Thats enough of an invitation to me. I’m there and yes even if it lead to death.


#3

[quote=Fergal]Pope John Paul II once said: ***"***Have no fear of moving into the unknown. Simply step out fearlessly knowing that I am with you, therefore no harm can befall you; all is very, very well. Do this in complete faith and confidence."

Thats enough of an invitation to me. I’m there and yes even if it lead to death.
[/quote]

Absolutely!
~ Kathy ~


#4

Definitely follow the truth where ever it leads you. Because what meanings would you have to live in a lie. Happiness in a lie is just another lie.

If the truth should lead you to death, then that’s a death worth dying for. Don’t you think?

Tee


#5

If one believes in absolute truth then when one discovers such one has a moral obligation to conform to it.


#6

Blue Tuna and Steve Green, you answered no.

Could you explain why you answered in this way?

Peace


#7

On the contrary, the truth will lead us to life everlasting not death. This is the promise of God from the beginning. This is the assurance of the Holy Gospels from the fullfilment of God in Christ. Truth will lead us to life. Lies and satan will lead us to death. For Christ said: “I am the way, the truth and the life…No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

The truth then doesn’t lead us to "wherever it leads us."
If we follow Christ - the truth, therefore, we won’t be lead anywhere else except to the Father.

[quote=dennisknapp]Socrates once said that he was will to follow the truth where ever it led him (BTW it led to his death).

Are we willing to do the same?

If you were wrong would you want to know it? Or would you be happy to remain in error if you were happy in that error?

On another thread I was discussing Catholic Tradition with a fellow poster (that is the “big T” tradition, not the “little t” tradition). We started to discuss the truth claims of our positions when the poster posted this:

“I will never get you to believe that Protestants have legitimate reasons for distrusting oral tradition and you will never get me to believe that traditions hold the same legitimacy as scripture.”

I responded by saying that I was open to changing my position if it were proven false, and that I, like Socrates, would follow the truth where ever it led me.

So, would you do the same? Even if it led you to believe something that was uncomfortable?

On a personal note:

I became Catholic in 2001 to the amazement and disbelief of many of my closest friend. I did this because I was convinced of the truth of the Catholic Church. It was not easy, actually it was very difficult. Former Protestants will understand what I am talking about. They will understand the response you get from your Protestant friends when you decide to become a member of the…gasp!.. Catholic Church.

Peace
[/quote]


#8

Real easy…

“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.”
~~ Jesus, the Christ and
my Lord and Savior


#9

Somebody wrote me to ask why I answered no to the question.

Just to see if someone would write and ask me.
Of course the answer is yes.


#10

Saying, “Of course I’d follow the truth anywhere, it’s what I already believe!” seems like a bit of a cop-out.

I’m an atheist. If I found hard evidence that I was wrong, and that some deity does exist, I would change my beliefs. If you guys found hard evidence that there is no God, or that the true god is one other than yours, would you believe it?

(Of course, such hard evidence for either proposition is pretty unlikely, but hey, we’re speaking hypothetically.)


#11

Yes, we should always follow the Truth. The Truth will always lead you to Christ who is the Way and the Truth and the Life.


#12

[quote=SamCA]Saying, “Of course I’d follow the truth anywhere, it’s what I already believe!” seems like a bit of a cop-out.

I’m an atheist. If I found hard evidence that I was wrong, and that some deity does exist, I would change my beliefs. If you guys found hard evidence that there is no God, or that the true god is one other than yours, would you believe it?

(Of course, such hard evidence for either proposition is pretty unlikely, but hey, we’re speaking hypothetically.)
[/quote]

The only evidence for God is logical. The only reason we have tension between humanism and theism is because somebody was stupid enough to say “Prove it!” All humanism is based on belief, there is no way to prove it. I claim that God exists and that my God is the one true God etc. I cannot prove it except by logical means. I’m saying that it is pretty stupid to believe anything, but man has had a choice from the beginning of the world to even believe in Santa Claus. (which is probably the stupidest thng to believe) I cannot take your free will away from you.
Oh yes! The only other thing I want to point out to you is that history has proved that humanism cannot provid order, unless it is under a dictatorship. :wink:

Pray for you!


#13

Definitely YES.
Truth of course can be empirically proven. Anything else is just an imagination or undeterminable.


#14

[quote=AnAtheist]Definitely YES.
Truth of course can be empirically proven. Anything else is just an imagination or undeterminable.
[/quote]

Really, so the laws of logic are imagination and undeterminable?

How exactly is all truth empirically proven? Truth claims are propositions, and therefore some are hard to prove empirically.

There are empirical propositions, such as the earth is round and the sun is the center of our universe. But there are propositions that cannot be empirically proven, such as 2+2=4. Math is an abstract concept which has no existence in the empirical world, but is none the less true.

Peace


#15

[quote=dennisknapp]Really, so the laws of logic are imagination and undeterminable?

How exactly is all truth empirically proven? Truth claims are propositions, and therefore some are hard to prove empirically.

[/quote]

Logic is not truth, it is an instrument to determine whether a statement is true or not.

Math is an abstract concept which has no existence in the empirical world, but is none the less true.

Math has empiral roots. The basic axioms of Math were derived from observation.
E.g.: If I pick an apple, I have one apple. If I pick another apple, I have two. If I pick another apple, I have three. And so on. That’s everyday experience. Hence the axiom, that each natural number has a successor.


#16

Even in Math there are many paradoxes or dilemmas that can not be proved one way or another.
There is no logic or math that either prove or disprove God’s existence. But just because it can not be proved or disproved does not mean it does not exists.

We can not capture the wind, but we know it is there, we can see its effects. We can not capture love but we know there is such a thing, we can feel or see its effects on ourselves or on other people.

Studies have shown that prayers for sick folks do in fact have a statistical impact, even though they may not even be aware that other folks are praying for them. Can folks somehow sense that prayers are beinge said for them or is there something more at work here ???

People go to Lourdes and Fatima and seek cures and in fact get cured even though there is medical evidence (56 well documented cases and thousands more not documented) that they should not have been able to recover. IS this merely feeling more hopeful and being more positive or is there something or someone behind this ???

Some folks lead very upright lives, they are gifted with either miraculous healing powers or are given a vision of Christ or Mary, and somehow their bodies remain incorruptable after death (some over 500 years ago)… is this a coincidence or some freakish act nature ? or is there something or someone else that makes this happen.

500 years ago, some peasant Mexican (St Juan Diego) has a vision and is given a cloak that has an image that can not be recreated by any human means (even in this day and age), is this a visit from an extraterresterial ? did the Mexican make this up somehow getting technology beyond his age, or is it someone or something trying to tell us something ???

There is plenty of proof out there, IF you really want to seek Truth you have to be willing to accept the evidence in either direction.

You may scoff and say all this is made up or hoaxes, BUT is it really ??? Enough folks have examined these things and say it is no hoax, you have NOT. You may say all these folks are lying, but who is fooling who ???

The Truth is there, you just don’t have the openess and courage to accept it.

wc


#17

[quote=wcknight]But just because it can not be proved or disproved does not mean it does not exists.
[/quote]

Quite right, but:

If it can be proven, it exists.
If it can be disproven, it does not.
If it can’t be proven or disproven, no statement about its existence can be made for sure. In that case it is misfitting to speak of “truth”.


#18

Yes, we should follow the truth


#19

[quote=AnAtheist]Logic is not truth, it is an instrument to determine whether a statement is true or not.
[/quote]

So are our senses. They are tools we use to prove or disprove something, they are not truths themselves.

I was refering to abstract mathmatical concepts.

Peace


#20

[quote=AnAtheist]Quite right, but:

If it can be proven, it exists.
[/quote]

You mean proven through empirical observation it exists, not logic, right?

Or your method is lacking.

If it can’t be proven, it could exist or it could not, so it is not misfitting to speak of “truth.”

Peace


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