should the changes in our faith like the mass and the rosary be followed or should we stick to the old ones.?
The Rosary has been a important catholic prayer since the 1500 or so right?
Is there anything wrong in praying the Rosary? I can’t see how it could be wrong for us to honor Mary and seek greater knowledge of our Lord Jesus.
When talking about the changes in mass, do you refer to the second Vatican consil? I think less Latin and more of our own language is a strength.
I’m on my way into the church so less Latin has made my way into Catholicism much easier than it would have been if the mass where held in Latin.
But, I like that your questioning changes in the faith as some of them might be questionable:) If Im wrong about anything feel free to correct me as Im not 100 per cent sure about every aspect of the Catholic faith yet:)
i mean the addition of five more mysteries to the holy rosary
Ok, I see:)
The Luminous Mysteries that is.
I understand your concerns about changes in a 500 years of traditions, but I find the Luminous Mysteries easier to Accept than the Glorious Mysteries 4th and 5th mysteries as theire all parts of the Holy Bible.
All mysteries are from the bible except from the Assumption of Mary and the Coronation of the Virgin which I think is harder to defend from a biblical point of view, but has its outspring only in the Church catecism, (I know the mysteries in the rosary are after Our Holy Mothers will as she stated in Fatima).
I think its some very valid mysteries that has been included, and I cant see how it can make some harm, But I think you should pray the Rosary the way you feel most comfortable With:) If that is without the Luminous Mysteries I think you should pray it the old fashion way:)
The most important thing is that you accutaly pray the Rosary:)
The luminious mysteries are the mysteries of light, of revelation.
*]God the Father fully reveals to God the Son his salvific mission at the Baptism, and through it reveals the savior to man.
*]Jesus begins to reveal not the old wine of the law but the new wine of the Gospel to mankind at the wedding.
*]The advent of the new covenant and God’s new kingdom is revealed in the proclamation of the kingdom.
*]Christ as the fulfillment of all prophecy and Jesus glory as the divine son of God is
*]are revealed in the transfiguration.
*]The fullness of the new kingdom, the new covenant and Christ’s presence on earth is revealed at the last supper.
They are luminious because they shed light on who Christ is, what his mission is and how he will remain present with us through all time. They are revealed truths, mysteries through which God illuminates, makes himself known in the person of His Son Jesus Christ.
Which mysteries we pray in the rosary isn’t a matter of dogma. Actually, you could even make up your own if you wanted to (although I don’t see a reason to).
The current Church is the one we should follow
I think the addition of the luminous mysteries suddenly to a traditional prayer like the rosary was a little odd—but I do enjoy the meditation on them, so it’s okay with me. I think over all that’s a plus.
The changes in the Mass post V2 were definitely off-putting for many—infact, I fell away from the church at exactly the time they changed to English. I was raised with the Latin mass and loved and understood it. Frankly I prefer the Mass in Latin. My parish does the Mass in Latin about once a month and I love to go to that Mass—but I don’t feel strongly enough about it to specifically look for a church that says only Latin Masses, though there are some out there that do offer the Mass in Latin.
The one thing that I specifically detest that is “new” as in since V2, is most of the new music used. I find that most of the new songs, accompanied by a guitar are a little lame and lack the solemnity and beauty of the older hymns, but again, I just don’t sing along if I hate the song and use that time for silent prayer. Some of the new songs are just daft and there’s no other way to put it—but again, whatever.
I also don’t particularly care for what they did to the Our Father–adding the protestant “For thine is the kingdom and the power, etc” at the end basically. I think V2 wasted a whole lot of time trying to dumb down the Mass and make the Mass more like a protestant service and that is just one example. Same thing is true with the whole offering each other a sign of peace—it turns into a free-for-all at my parish. Some people will actually insist on leaving their seats and walking all around the church greeting people and to me, that’s a little ridiculous.
Anyway, i am not sure what everyone means by “traditional”. I don’t really think we get much vote on the issue. I love the Mass and certainly will continue to attend and receive communion as to me, that far exceeds any silliness that they come up with about the liturgy. I hope the pope keeps busy enough now, however, that he doesn’t feel the same need as John 23 did with V2 again—to steam roll through the liturgy and make everything conform to some new “vision” of his or the church hierarchy or however you choose to call it
The Luminous Mysteries are not changes in our faith. Nothing in the faith changed with meditating on the Luminous Mysteries or Mysteries of Light. They are meditations on the Life of Jesus - nothing changed in faith.
Pope John Paul II gave us these as a way to focus on aspects of the Life of Jesus while praying the rosary.
You might enjoy this webpage.
Sometimes we have problems accepting something that is new to us. Looking at the webpage, you might see that while the use of these scripture subjects are “new” to meditation with the rosary, they are part of the Bible so not “new” to the faith.
Here’s a website on the Doxology.
Very early on in the Catholic Liturgy, the Lord’s Prayer was concluded with a doxology (a prayer of praise), “*For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever and ever”. *
The early Church did use the doxology in the Liturgy just as we do today. The doxology has been included in and taken out of the Mass throughout history. This prayer had been omitted from the Liturgy of recent centuries until Vatican II when it was reauthorized for use at Mass only. It is recited and acknowledged as an ancient prayer of praise.
I don’t really understand your point.
The form of the Mass is a discipline and not a doctrine. All disciplines can be changed.
The Rosary is a private devotion and is not mandatory. Personally, I like the Luminous Mysteries because for me it completes the Rosary by including the public ministry of Christ which was missing before.
I think things inherently go down hill when you start comparing new and old devotions in Catholicism, unless they’ve been formally abolished.
Is the Rosary good? Yes.
Is the Divine Mercy Chaplet good? Yes.
Is the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite good? Yes.
Is the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite good? Yes.
Is the old Breviary good? Yes.
Is the new Breviary good? Yes.
I like the Luminous Mysteries! And because I often pray the Rosary on my fingers, perhaps one more set of mysteries will bring it to completion - just as we have five fingers to make a complete hand. If so, I’d recommend introducing the Last Things Mysteries or Eschatological Mysteries. It could be similar to the meditation on the four last things but simply add one more, perhaps the second coming! I think that this would allow us to also look FORWARD and contemplate Christ’s glorious return and our own death and judgement and Eternity. Like the Luminous mysteries all could easily be taken from the Bible - and also perhaps from the liturgy (Christ has died, Chris is risen, CHRIST WILL COME AGAIN!) if the Last Things (Eschatological) Mysteries were added, it would then give us a prayer/meditation method that allows us to contemplate the last, present, and future. Currently, the focus is on the past and present and perhaps thinking about the “end” ( which truly is just the beginning…as in dying we are born unto eternal life as St Francis prayer says) would be good for all of us as we prepare to meet The Lord someday soon.
Just an idea. What do you wiser and holier beloved think?
John Paul II was clear that his proposed addition of the Luminous Mysteries was to be left “to the freedom of individuals and communities” (see Rosarium Virginis Mariae). The stated intention behind the Luminous Mysteries is that they would make the Rosary “more fully a compendium of the Gospel.” It hardly appears that he intended to canonize them. But, it is understandable that one who believes that the Rosary with its three sets was given by private revelation from the hand of the Virgin Mary would prefer not to add mysteries to it for that reason or for other reasons. The great advantage I see to the Luminous Mysteries is for those who pray one set of mysteries a day, it allows one to break the recitation of the other three sets equally over the course of the week with the Luminous Mysteries occupying the remaining day.
Another traditional versus modern thread? – shakes head --. The Church gives us the EF and OF. I firmly believe that Traditions should be followed, but obedience to the Church is the key. Example: You own a 1962 missal which you use for the EF Mass - that’s fine. You use the latest missal for the OF Mass - that’s fine.
What is lost, I think, in these threads is the idea that what was taught in Catholic schools during and prior to Vatican II has all been covered over and lost to the current generation. My point is, Vatican II was not called to present new truths but to present the same truths in a new way. Pope John XXIII was well aware of the outside influences that were affecting the people at that time. This was not a random event but a movement of the Holy Spirit. One example was the United States and Russia both deploying ICBMs in 1959, causing widespread concern among the people, who had known, from at least 1950, that the threat of nuclear war was a possibility.
It’s up to the individual. You can follow all of the old traditions to your heart’s content and you can disregard all new ways if you like under the condition that you do not believe these things to be invalid. As a Catholic you must follow the Church. The Church says these things are valid and as such you must believe they are. It’s the same way that all of the old traditions are allowed by the Church as such you can still follow them.
You should understand that the tradition of the church is to change as lead by the Holy Spirit. If this were not the case we would still have house churchs and following a more Jewish form of worship.
The church is not stagnet set in stone and should not be viewed as such. Christ sent us an advocate in the form of the Holy Spirit, because as he told the apostles they could not know or understand everything. We are no different and the same still applies. The Church continues to grow and change in it’s understanding of God’s message and will continue to do so.
Christ told us that new wine cannot be put into old wine skins, in the same way we as Catholics are called to follow todays bishops and todays guidance as recieved through Spirit. We cannot put our hand to the plow to take the church into the future by looking backword, this the Lord has taught us.
Wouldn’t your attitude/question have prohibited you from ever starting to pray the Rosary in the first place? After all there was a time when it was new and not a part of traditional Catholicism.
The peace of Christ,
My thoughts exactly.
I have no problem with folks that wish to follow the OF, additions to the Rosary or the “new” Breviary. I choose to follow the older forms. My choice and preference.