Sin of drunkeness vs nature of a person


#1

So in some cases we say a drunk person is just an unhindered verion of their true self. That losing “judgement” means they will revert to their true nature of a terrible sinner.

I read once someone speaking on hypocrites in church this somewhat famous guy known for being quite the jerk was asked how he could be a catholic and so bad. His response was basically “Imagine how horrible I would be if I wasn’t catholic”

To say that many of these kinds of people which may or may not be the majority of humans are unchecked horrid humans. That the rules set in writing are all that stops them from unleashing cruelty upon the world.

But what about if there were such a person not so innately horrid? Would they for example be as sinful drunk?

So if not catholic say this individual would break all ten commandments. So if Mr. Mean Catholic gets drunk, he becomes the great breaker of the 10. Okay, he definitely should bever get drunk.

But what if there was such a non horrible person? Someone who by nature has no interest in breaking the 10. So as they get drunk in this instance and stay in comoliance with all the rules whether they see them a rule or not even.

Sort of “hey let’s steal that”

Can be met with “I cant it is a sin”

VS

A response of “Umm I have no interest in such a thing”

So the “it’s a sin” who is drunk would do it

But “I dont want to” drunk would still not do it.

Not sonething one should necessarily ever test, but an interesting musing.


#2

I find a drunkard a fearful thing, b/c
I don;t know how he will treat me
(Usually abusive) a person who is
normally a pleasant man can be a
Mr. Hyde when drunk!!


#3

I don’t agree with your angle that a drunk is the unhindered version of a person. I think whether we are sober or drunk we have to check ourselves… keep ourselves in line. I believe we are constantly changing and growing. So we have guide ourselves to which way we want to “grow”.

I personally feel like there are “happy drunks” BUT I don’t believe they would remain that way the more often they drank.

I think if you drink too much at a special occasion its fine and you will most likely “behave”

But I believe if you are one to be drunk often you are probably not keeping yourself in check as well as if you were sober those times. Make sense?

Even sober we can make bad decisions and slowly let ourselves creep into dark areas and compromise our thoughts and beliefs.

I think that is the problem with drinking… it changes people


#4

IDK, I did ALOT of partying and drinking in my younger days, and I never changed personalities, even when I was really drunk. I did see many people that became violent or angry when drinking, but usually they were quick tempered people to begin with, or they enjoyed being a jerk to other people.

I may not be a good example though, Im the kind of person who NEVER gets upset or angry, no matter what happens, Im always calm and friendly with everyone.


#5

I may not be a good example though, Im the kind of person who NEVER gets upset or angry, no matter what happens, Im always calm and friendly with everyone.

There is plenty about a person that is not about being calm and friendly. Bad decisions and actions can happen when a person is being friendly… some people make decisions because they are friendly… don’t want to hurt feelings or cause an uncomfortable situation. I know women who have slept around and they were always very calm and friendly :slight_smile:


#6

I am talking of someone who is who they are. So we can grow to a degree and morality can be found within that, so we can’t quite judge by catholic morals every drunk.

If you are a atheist but have a firm moral belief in no killing assuming that is a 100% truth, I expect you not to be kiling drunk or sober.

Now the atheist who has no premarital sex prohibition and has sex has not broke their nature of sobriety.

So my point is that if we are formed to who we want to be at the time.

So if you are a Catholic who might sober have sex… but you try your darndest not to and generally do not or maybe never do… but if you have drunk sex the alcohol didnt make you do it, you are that person.

But if you are a Catholic who has no issues with sex and could have the top ten memebers of the opposite sex throw every fantasy your way and not “struggle” one bit sober… then there will be no drunk sex.

So with that in a sense the sin of drunkeness would be really only a factor for the first. Under the theory


#7

Sounds similar to my times lol. I may have occasionally been a bit interested in drunk fights but notably long before I took a sip I said “ooo let’s get drunk and fight”
It was for fun though really.


#8

People are as different as each star in the sky… there will never be one correct response to your thought.

I can tell you this. I married someone who was raised Catholic… all of the sacraments, religion class, mass every Sunday growing up. They ruined their life by drinking. I ended up getting a divorce. Now they don’t go to church - I hate to think of the depraved life they live.

You will say that is how they were born. I will say maybe they had that gene passed on from a parent, but that is now how they were supposed to live.

If they would have stopped drinking they would have had a completely different life - a better life. So in my case yes drinking shut down that life completely ruined it. When I think of what was lost because of drinking its very sad.


#9

Our judgement is part of who we are.
Without it, the idea that we are somehow more who we are is a fallacy.


#10

I absolutely disagree with that comment. What is your basis for such a claim. I mean concrete basis and not just your opinion.


#11

A man here got drunk on his birthday, accosted a girl, then when a Garda started to search him, in the street still, took all his clothes off… I shudder to think reading this thread what to make of that.,


#12

I have tried to figure out what exactly what your reason is behind this post.
My first thought was that you’re looking for a loophole on the sin of drunkenness. But I really don’t think that’s the case. I’m also not telling you what to do.

For now I’ll just leave this, as to why I hardly ever drink:

Our body’s are temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 6:19)
Drunkards are included as people that won’t inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:10)
And we are told directly not to get drunk. (Ephesians 5:18)


#13

My nature must be that of an incredibly sleepy person. I have not gotten drunk very often in my life, but whenever I have I get very, very sleepy. Not pass-out drunk, just sleepy. :stuck_out_tongue:

Or that could just be what alcohol does to a person chemically speaking. Alcohol is a depressant. It does prevent certain things from acting in the brain that normally flare up, which does lower our inhibitions, but that doesn’t mean that the “drunk you” is any more the “real you” than anything else. When alcohol is doing that it’s also doing other things.


#14

You quoted it:

“In some cases we [humans] say”

There is no concrete, it is an often stated opinion of a large nunber of humans, and I am commenting on it.

It can be as true or false as any other unprovabke and often considered thing.


#15

I am a curious person :slight_smile: and I enjoy ideas and such :slight_smile:

But I also think much of my idea about people’s nature. As an example I have given before asking someone if they are bothered by something

They say “No…(shakes in anger)… that doesn’t bother me”

Do you believe it? The oral no? When it was accomoanied by angry clenching and shaking???

This is an obvious example, but it goes to much more subtle ones. And my basis in a person’s “true self” theory means that many people can under optimal conditions keep themselves void of sin.

However if they are like the angry shaking guy in nature, then drunkeness or any other situatiinal thing for that matter can draw them out.

With drunkeness being sinful only because its high percentage to result in sin I am theorizing that while it would be generally impossible to put forth a “loophole” from a philosophical or theoretical standpoint a person who is a saint by innate nature would not be at risk due to situationals and thereby by drunkenness.

Also this leads to the thought of working on our true selves. If you have been drunk and broke “your” own morality, one might want to consider enhancing their holiness. Because it might give a clue that while you say “no” even to yourself you are unknowingly metaphorically shaking in anger.

Essentially if you cannot get drunk, you are not who you think you are.


#16

Sorry to hear. I still dont get addiction, and working around them the ones who get clean usually state “I finally actually wanted to” as how it finally happened.

I wont say I dont believe the substances cause a enhanced difficulty but hearing the reason be the same for hubdreds of addicts convinces me it is more the person than the substance.

Now there is much involved and I do think people grow, so not to say your ex was “born that way” but that at some point that core person made a choice :frowning:

I when I had a good job, no family, and nothing better to do drank like a person who shall we say “should” become an alcoholic.

I felt no issues not drinking upon responsibility. I didnt even realize how much alcohol was meaningless until an arguement with my exwife.

She decided to in front of her parents during our seperation call out my level of drinking. Stating “you drink all the time and we are supposed to be starting a family”

I stopped for a moment to think… “hmmm when?? When did I drink??”

For at that moment for the first time I realized I had literally not had a single drink since we were married! I had stuff to do lol.

Of course her attempt to make me look bad failed, but also I noticed in that moment when we acknowledged my lack of deinking, that I can drink like a champion, and walk away without even noticing. And I am forever perplexed how the alcohol can consume a life if you don’t actuvely choose it on sone level.

For me the fun of alcohol was for its time and place, the fun of having a family was my goal. I made the choice as a youbgster to enjoy alcohol, but even younger than that I chose to value my family as prime purpose. So that it was never even a concious choice to forgoe alcohol! It only has a place when it has no hinderance on my real values.


#17

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.