Sin to Disagree with The Pope?

I have been a huge rock and roll fan for many years. I can play electric guitar quite well and it is one of my great loves in life. I am very religious, but until recently never saw anything wrong with listening to rock and being a good Catholic. I recently read something Cardinal Ratzinger wrote about rock and roll before he became pope. I disagree with it on many levels, because I believe there is a lot of good rock music. Im terrified now, however, because I feel like if i listen to a little Van Halen, I’ve somehow committed an act of schism. I don’t think I agree with the Pope, but I want to know; is it a sin to disagree with him on this matter?

Your question will be very hard to answer since we do not have the quote from the Holy Father nor do we know all of the types of music that you listen to. Rock and Roll music is not intrinsictly evil in and of itself unless it exhorts us to move into immoral areas. We find this in stand up comedians, movies, plays, other generes of music and the like. I’ve listened to rock and roll, and still do, without compromising my integrity. So, perhaps you might be more explicit with the Pope’s comments and with your choice of lyrics…God Bless…teachccd :slight_smile:

“Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. (The Spirit of the Liturgy, pp 147-8)

The above is the text that I read and was worried about.

“Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the experience of being part of a crowd and by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments. (The Spirit of the Liturgy, pp 147-8)

I have been a huge rock and roll fan for many years. I can play electric guitar quite well and it is one of my great loves in life. I am very religious, but until recently never saw anything wrong with listening to rock and being a good Catholic. Obviously, I’m not talking about obviously satanic rock, or songs that talk explicitly about sin. Many songs in the rock genre do not do this. I recently read what is written above by Cardinal Ratzinger. I disagree with it on many levels, because I believe there is a lot of good rock music. Im terrified now, however, because I feel like if i listen to a little Van Halen, I’ve somehow committed an act of schism. I know he has infallibility in matters of morals and faith, but i don’t know if this is the kind of thing that is talking about. I don’t think I agree with the Pope, but I want to know; is it a sin to disagree with him on this matter?

Sorry, but rock and roll is largely influenced by Satan and should be avoided at all costs.

The most influential man on the blues is Robert Leroy Johnson. It is said that he sold his soul to the devil so he could be a highly skilled blues player. Many rock and roll artists, including and Led Zepplin, say their work is influenced by his.

So it’s best not to listen to any.

No I don’t think listening to rock is a sin at all (I don’t think its isn’t good to listen to if it as bad words but clean rock I don’t see what the problem would be) and he wasn’t the Pope at the time he said that so no. Rock like any type of music speaks to different people differently. One person hates it & could never pray while listening to it, while others like myself pray the rosary while listening to it. Listening to Fireproof by Pillar helps me to focus on the rosary better, when I cant focus on it easily. (Dont know why but it does help) Just my opinion

Music itself is neutral in terms of morality. What I read in the quoted passage is the need to remain vigilant, to not be subdued by the crowd and become part of the mob that worships the artist and his music.
Do listen to the words that are being used in a song. I think that you bring up a valid point that there is a large range of music that is included in the Rock genre from Turn, Turn, Turn to Bridge Over Troubled Water to songs focusing on superficial human relationships.
Just as there is good literature and artwork as well as “drivel,” the same can be said of music. What I think the Cardinal was saying is avoid being seduced by that which is not worthwhile.

Sorry, but rock and roll is largely influenced by Satan and should be avoided at all costs.

The most influential man on the blues is Robert Leroy Johnson. It is said that he sold his soul to the devil so he could be a highly skilled blues player. Many rock and roll artists, including and Led Zepplin, say their work is influenced by his.

So it’s best not to listen to any.

Thats the first time I’ve heard of that. Even if it is true, however, is it really fair to blame all of rock and roll music for the supposed sins of one man? Should we not then boycott all music, seeing as most all music derives from the blues? It seems to me we should condemn the sin, not the genre. I’m not saying you can’t be right, and I’m still looking for an answer; just defending my position.

I enjoy rock and roll. My DH and I have over 250 albums. All the Led Zeppelin…one of my favs…the Who…the Doors…Rolling Stones…the Beatles…Foghat…Boston…Eric Clapton…Jefferson Airplane and Starship…Fleetwood Mac…

the good ol rock and roll…

I like U2 and back in the day, I used the U2 album Joshua Tree and War as part of my CCD lesson for confirmation candidates.

The Pope is infallible ONLY under certain strictly defined conditions.

For example, I disagree with things he has said about the Harry Potter series. There are more blasphemies and sorceries and spells in the first 45 minutes of Christopher Marlowe’s play DR FAUSTUS (made into a movie with Richard Burton) than in all the HP books put together.

The pope’s infallibility is certainly not retroactive to things he might have said before elevation to the Roman see.

So should television, movie theaters, newspapers, magazines, billboards, universities, and many other influences that envelope our lives. Shall we live in a bubble or discern how we shall live in such a distorted world. Not all rock and roll is influenced by satan and to think so is really nonsensical.

So we should never go to the movies since many actors have also “sold” their souls to the devil. That’s ridiculous…teachccd

Well then you should turn that Van Halen cr** off and start listening to the Allman Brothers.:smiley:

I agree that we simply need to be vigilant in choosing music that wouldn’t call into question our moral stance. Incidentally-I just found out recently at a catechesis talk that the pope has only declared infallability 2 times in 2000 years. Once when the Blessed Mother was declared the Immaculate Conception and when the teaching of the Assumption was declared.:slight_smile:

Also the pope is in his 80’s, an age where most people don’t particularly like rock music. He likes classical music. He is entitled to his opinion on music but it is just that, his opinion. I was raised on rock and roll and I still listen to a classic rock station and I love it.

As far fetched as you think it is, perhaps you would listen to the audio by Fr. Basil Nortz, ORC: Music and Morality.

I thought he was nuts at first, but as I just continued to listen to what he presented, I gotta tell you, Pope Benedict and this priest are on to something.

There was a time when jazz (practically chamber music now) was considered risque, if not immoral, because it originated in the brothels of New Orleans.

The very terns “jazz,” “boogie-woogie”, and “rock and roll” have sexual connotations.

For that matter, when it appeared the waltz was considered shocking because the couple held each other in their arms.

Commander,
Please keep in mind that then Card. Ratzinger was speaking specifically about the suitability of rock music for use at the Mass (our rather the un-suitablilty). His stated opinion about what belongs in the Mass is binding, when he is acting as Pope, which he was not yet at the time, but I doubt that he will have changed his mind. The truth that he was teaching still holds.

He was not speaking about rock music as a form of recreation (listening or playing). Granted, one could learn something from his comments, and take them into consideration when choosing music for recreation, but not to the point of considering rock itself a sinful act (examples within the genre, yes, but the form as a whole, no). That’s both taking the words out of their context, and reading too much into them. Put them back into context, and I would be open to a discussion on whether rock in the Mass would be sinful. But it appears to me that what the Holy Father is talking about and what you are talking about are somewhat related, but certainly not the same thing. In fact, I will go so far as to say that they are vastly different things.

You yourself refered to “satanic rock” You’ve come to the appropriate conclusion for yourself on that point. But remember that he’s speaking of rock in general terms.

I listen to classic rock myself. I also like ice cream. Neither belongs in the Mass. A taste for both, in moderation and at the proper time, is not necessarily a bad thing, although an excess of either would be.

As an aside, I’ve learned over the years, that some of my “favorite” songs have turned out to be what some might call “satanic.” I never knew that because I liked the music but never understood the lyrics. I’m probably not alone in this.

I never knew that because I liked the music but never understood the lyrics. I’m probably not alone in this.

**A couple of decades ago when backwards masking was the bête noir in some places, my 7 and 8 grade music students were talking about it, thinking the concern over it was silly.

“You can’t even understand the words,” they said.

I replied, “You know how I’m always after you about diction–making each syllable crystal clear, even a bit exaggerated, so everyone can understand what you are singing. Now, just what are these rock musicians singing that they DON’T want you to understand? WHY do they not want to be understood.”

They saw my point.**

what about christian rock? i wouldnt be surprised if most christian rock writers liked/were influnced by other rock. personally, i think that as long as YOU aren’t being influenced by any satanic lyrics, you’re pretty safe. i know several “immaculate” individuals who listen to nirvana. but that’s not to say that its perfectly fine to listen to death metal and other junk like that. as long as your concience is still being guided by the holy spirit, just go with what it tells you.

as for it being a sin to disagree with the pope, he wasn’t the pope at the time when he said that. also, the pope doesn’t excercise his papal infallibility in every word he speaks.

sumary: chances are, you’ll be just fine without scrapping your ipod:thumbsup:

First of all, let’s take a step back. Remember the title of the book you’ve quoted: The Spirit of the Liturgy. He is discussing music used for the Holy Sacrifice.

Hey, I love Duran Duran and I like listenting to Van Halen (DLR more than SH), but, that is apart from the Mass. I even like to listen to early U2 (I downloaded “Gloria”, but, even though it has Latin in it and refers to the Lord, I wouldn’t use it for Mass). Hey, I’ve even listened to “Falling Down” by Duran Duran (with the volume up) on my way to Mass. :smiley:

That is the big difference he brings up. Rock and pop music (which makes up the Praise and Worship format) isn’t suitable for the Mass. But, what you listen to outside of the Mass is not a problem. Remember, too, that Kelly Clarkson, Gloria Estefan and others have performed before the pope. They aren’t church musicians.

Now, were you to agree with the Church on the issue of abortion, that is a whole other story.

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