SNAP protesting Cardinal Law saying Mass?


#1

By what authority these people have dare to say that Cardinal Law cannot say a mass for the Pope? We understand they have been victims of clergy abuse but they should limit their actions.

Are they rebelling against authority? The Church is not a government of the US nor any other country. If they are thinking that they can do whatever they want because of “freedom”, well, they are already over-stepping the boundary.

Pio


#2

:banghead:

Americans wonder why people hate Americans. Americans are about to disturb nearly two weeks of reverence and solemnity. Not a single pickpocketing incident was reported since the pope’s death. Why do these idiots have to perpetuate the feelings the world community has about us?

Thieves respect the pope.
Americans, as the world will judge, do not.


#3

There’s a large thread in Water Cooler about Cardinal Law. While he’s certainly going to have much to answer for, my impression of SNAP is shall I saw a bunch of very unhappy vitriolic people who want to blame their entire litany of problems on the priest sex abuse scandal. It’s really a shame that they can’t wait until the week of mourning is finished.

Lisa N


#4

[quote=Lisa N]There’s a large thread in Water Cooler about Cardinal Law. While he’s certainly going to have much to answer for, my impression of SNAP is shall I saw a bunch of very unhappy vitriolic people who want to blame their entire litany of problems on the priest sex abuse scandal. It’s really a shame that they can’t wait until the week of mourning is finished.

Lisa N
[/quote]

I agree with you wholeheartedly!!


#5

SNAP needs prayer, and lots of it. They are the poster children for those that do not follow the clause in the Our Father: "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those that trespass against us." It does not help them that the bishops repeatedly dropped the ball on this mess for years. . .but they are still called to forgive.

And that is a VERY tough road to follow, giving that forgiveness. . .but it is still what they are called to do.


#6

I don’ t know what’s going on with American’s mentality. It has gone rock bottom for sure.
The bishops are not treated with respect. Americans have lost their roots. Especially some Catholic Americans! Stop treating your superiors as peers!! They are holy men working for Christ. If you stop treating them as peers, maybe they will stop acting as people responsible for your every needs.
No time for babysitters.
Stand up, walk, and sin no more!


#7

And now they’re going to engage in the favorite passtime of the aggrieved liberal, they are going to march. On Rome.
cnn.com/2005/US/04/10/cardinal.law/index.html


#8

If he genuinely wants to honor the pope, he should avoid causing distractions to the solemn ceremonies and recluse [sic] himself from any other public role.“If he genuinely wants to honor the pope, he should avoid causing distractions to the solemn ceremonies and recluse [sic] himself from any other public role.”>>>>>

I think SNAP should take it’s own advice

Lisa N


#9

[quote=hlgomez]By what authority these people have dare to say that Cardinal Law cannot say a mass for the Pope? We understand they have been victims of clergy abuse but they should limit their actions.

Are they rebelling against authority? The Church is not a government of the US nor any other country. If they are thinking that they can do whatever they want because of “freedom”, well, they are already over-stepping the boundary.

Pio
[/quote]

Sorry, I thought it was kind of innappropriate to have this man celebrate mass at the Pope’s funeral. This Pope who was such an advocate of the young. “Limit their actions”? Gosh…if I’ve been abused, and believe this man is a complicit participant in trying to hide this abuse…why would my church parade this in front of me? “Rebelling against authority”? What authority gives the right to abuse children? What authority are you speaking of? “Freedom”? Do you mean the freedom of a child to expect to be treated as a child of God instead of some pleasure item? Sorry again…I support that first freedom. “Thinking they can do whatever they want”? Gosh…what child wants that? In the face of that being done to them…Who exactly did what they want…the kids…or those priests?
Come on guys. I don’t know Cardinal Law personally…nor do I know the extent to which he’s truly heart-sorry over this. But…this was a slap in the face to every child…yes, child…who was forced to deal with this sort of burden at the hand of a priest…a man of god…a representative of Christ on earth.
I do believe in forgiveness…for any and all sins…great and small. But this was weird…this was strange. I am obedient and trusting to our mother church, and so I think the best intentions were involved…but this was weird…


#10

I was in the Diocese of Phoenix where several priests, including one from my parish, were removed for, shall we say, prior bad acts. The bishop was arrested for driving drunk and hitting a pedestrian. It was a terrible time, but it couldn’t compare with what happened in Boston.

I’m a little puzzled to hear people supporting authority under these circumstances over our fellow Catholics, adults and children alike, in the pews. I know nothing about this group planning to protest in Rome, but it’s obvious they are reacting to Cardinal Law taking a prominent role in the period of mourning for the Holy Father.


#11

As anyone who has read my past posts knows, I am very consevative politically and orthodox in church matters. Maybe SNAP’s timing is off but if it were not for people like them Law would still be in Boston. The only reason the Church is doing anything about the scandal is because they were forced to do so. My bishop fought to keep a child abuser’s personnel records out of court even after there was a court order to release them. The abuser plead guilty before the records were released and now he will not release them for the civil trial, where the abused are suing the diocese. I never thought I would see my Church obfuscate, delay and point fingers like they have done in this case. The American bishops seem to be more interested in protecting Church property than cleaning up this scandal.


#12

I don’t know anything about SNAP, but maybe if the Church stopped giving these people something to protest then they’d go home. Having Cardinal Law preside over a Mass in honor of the Holy Father is an insult to the Catholic Church as a whole and a complete disregard to those who have suffered at his hands. I know there is forgiveness. You can forgive someone who robs you, but that doesn’t mean you give him the keys to your house. The Holy Father forgave the man who shot him, but he still went around protected by bullet-proof glass after that happened.

If we’re going to let Cardinal Law celebrate a Mass in this most holy time, why don’t we just bring back Geghan from the dead and let him celebrate one, too. :rolleyes:

:tiphat:


#13

I think the Cardinal should’ve withdrawn from the world into a monastery, for the sake of the Church, voluntarily. This is salt in a wound. I don’t know about all of SNAP’s agenda, but I don’t think the victims deserved this. On the other hand, it was our beloved old Holy Father who made him Archpriest of St. Mary Major. It’s not for me to question the actions of the Vicar of Christ.


#14

[quote=Lovez4God]I don’ t know what’s going on with American’s mentality. It has gone rock bottom for sure.
The bishops are not treated with respect. Americans have lost their roots. Especially some Catholic Americans! Stop treating your superiors as peers!! They are holy men working for Christ. If you stop treating them as peers, maybe they will stop acting as people responsible for your every needs.
No time for babysitters.
Stand up, walk, and sin no more!
[/quote]

Before this thread becomes invariably closed, I’ll offer my two cents.
I forgive Cardinal Law, as I do with every human being who has ever lived; that is my calling as a Catholic. Groups like SNAP and, especially, Voice of the Faithful try to refashion the Church in their own image and likeness, contrary to what the Church should be.
But, this is not a situation to idly nod one’s head in respect of “superiors.” Law arguably broke the law… the Priests who committed these acts certainly did. People need to separate the Holy Orders from the person who possesses the Sacrament. Alexander VI never taught heresy, but he was a wicked, wicked man. The deferential attitude towards clerics fostered an environment where innocents were attacked. (It also fosters an environment where liturgical abuse runs rampant.) “I’m a Priest (or a Bishop, or in the Renaissance era, a Pope) so I’m above the law.” That’s unacceptable. I forgive them, but I don’t forget what they did. I forgive prisoners, but I don’t think they should be let out of jail.


#15

I think the Vatican including JPII may have been politically tone-deaf when appointing Law to this role. He should not be so visible. That’s all. He does not need to be drawn and quartered.

What worries me is that this seems to support the rumors that the underlying problem persists, that the hierarchy doesn’t “get it” yet, and so will be prone to these sorts of lapses. A layman wrote in the current issue of New Oxford Review that he fears up to half of our clergy are homosexual, that homosexual priests were responsible for 81% of the abuse cases, and that the Vatican and US bishops are still not dealing with it effectively. So we are not now immune from yet another tsunami… :frowning:


#16

Cardinal Law is a scapegoat. There are many worse out there who have not paid as Cardinal Law as paid. SNAP and the rest have an agenda and it is not just about abuse.

Let us not forget the good Cardinal Law has done for the faith. He helped with the CCC. He spoke out against the so-called common ground fiasco.

Cardinal Law made mistakes, but he is being persecuted to an extent that is uncalled for. There is much more blame to go around and many more heads may roll and they may have done much worse things than Law.

In this case, the use of the metaphor becomes a means of exerting psychological and emotional pressure. Survivor becomes a “talismanic” word, aimed at causing an ideological transshipment of the public.11

                  The word *survivor* is used in a subtle and emotionally charged way, giving it a new and almost magic power that goes much beyond its semantic value. It confers a kind of new ontological quality upon the person to whom it refers and puts him above those who did not participate in his experience. Being a *survivor* becomes like a new “sacrament,” which gives him an authority to pronounce himself in an uncontestable way.

SNAP’s official web site, in its Helpful Links from SNAP section, sends one to Rent-A-Priest,5 an association of married priests. For obvious reasons, this association advocates not only the end of priestly celibacy but also women priests and the remarriage of divorced people. It also promotes democracy in the Church.6

It becomes quite clear that SNAP (and other organizations) base their action on an ideology like that of revolutionary Catholic movements that want to democratize the Church, going headlong against the will of Our Lord, Who established the Church as a monarchy in the person of Saint Peter and the Apostles and their successors, the Popes and the bishops. 7

tfp.org/

On the Horns of a False Dilemma


#17

My issue is that SNAP is complaining about Cardinal Law drawing attention to himself, making a public spectacle, etc. No that is what THEY are doing. Were it not for the groups that are protesting Cardinal Law saying this mass, it would be a non-story. How does it honor the Holy Father to make his mourning period focus on someone’s grievances?

Interestingly I watched an encore of Fr. Groschel’s show and there was a question about Cardinal Law officiating. Fr. Groschel said he didn’t wonder at the secular, anti-Christian press seizing this story and playing it for all it’s worth. Anything to demean the Church. What he didn’t understand was the apparent relish with which some Catholics seemed to view this opportunity to continue to berate and humiliate Cardinal Law. Again he did not in any way defend what he did but said he wonders at the motivations of those who call for unending retribution.

Lisa N


#18

[quote=Lisa N]My issue is that SNAP is complaining about Cardinal Law drawing attention to himself, making a public spectacle, etc. No that is what THEY are doing. Were it not for the groups that are protesting Cardinal Law saying this mass, it would be a non-story. How does it honor the Holy Father to make his mourning period focus on someone’s grievances?

Interestingly I watched an encore of Fr. Groschel’s show and there was a question about Cardinal Law officiating. Fr. Groschel said he didn’t wonder at the secular, anti-Christian press seizing this story and playing it for all it’s worth. Anything to demean the Church. What he didn’t understand was the apparent relish with which some Catholics seemed to view this opportunity to continue to berate and humiliate Cardinal Law. Again he did not in any way defend what he did but said he wonders at the motivations of those who call for unending retribution.

Lisa N

[/quote]

The word survivor is used in a subtle and emotionally charged way, giving it a new and almost magic power that goes much beyond its semantic value. It confers a kind of new ontological quality upon the person to whom it refers and puts him above those who did not participate in his experience. Being a survivor becomes like a new “sacrament,” which gives him an authority to pronounce himself in an uncontestable way.


#19

Satan is behind SNAP. They’re out to destroy our Church and make money doing it. Did you see their webpage? They are actively solicitating “victims” to join them in their judicial quest to bring the Church down. Yes, any abuse is horrible. Not everyone is perfect and that is what makes RCC great. Didn’t Jesus teach us to love and forgive? I guess SNAP’s forgotten all of his teaching. I think our Church will continue to get persecuted until Judgement Day.


#20

[quote=MugenOne]Satan is behind SNAP. They’re out to destroy our Church and make money doing it. Did you see their webpage? They are actively solicitating “victims” to join them in their judicial quest to bring the Church down. Yes, any abuse is horrible. Not everyone is perfect and that is what makes RCC great. Didn’t Jesus teach us to love and forgive? I guess SNAP’s forgotten all of his teaching. I think our Church will continue to get persecuted until Judgement Day.
[/quote]

Do you have a link? When I did some research on the priest sexual abuse issue I got a very negative impression of SNAP and its long term motiviation. I think yes there are some who sincerely want to change things so that this horrible evil never again pervades our churches. OTOH I think some are much more focused on retribution if not trying to destroy the church.

You are right people ARE being solicited. My hairdresser (a straight female btw) works with a homosexual who was solicited several times by various “survivor” groups. Apparently he had been an altar boy at a local seminary and his name was on some list of ‘prospects.’ He said they clearly wanted him to remember incidents that didn’t take place and to simply play litigation roulette given that many of the accused priests are dead and thus cannot mount much defense. The sad thing is that they basically talked him into adding his name to a list of potential victims even though he admitted no molestations or other issues with the priests he served as a boy. But as he said, what does he have to lose?

Lisa N


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