So I've been told I am a heretic and excommunicated

Heresy is also a latae sententiae excommunication I believe. The OP stated thus him/herself. There is a list of six or seven things. Desecrating the Eucharist, physical force on the Pope, abortion and the others pertain to clergy alone. Don’t quote me on it, but that’s my understanding! :slight_smile:

I think that even in these cases, one should have a talk with, at least, one’s Confessor, before deciding that one has been “kicked out” and goes crying to the local Evangelical church or where ever. :shrug:

Maybe you should prayerfully consider if you’re not wrong and the Holy Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ is right?

Pax Christi tecum.

I agree completely! I did ask the OP if anyone with any authority told him that he/she was excommunicated. That’s when he/she mentioned automatic excommunication.

I don’t know…the whole thing (OP’s situation) is strange to me…

EXCOMMUNICATION

Ferendae Sententiae Excommunication:

Canon 1378: The pretended celebration of the Eucharist or of sacramental Confession
Canon 1388: Violation of the seal of Confession by an interpreter

Latae Sententiae Excommunication:

Canon 1364: Apostasy, heresy or schism
Canon 1367: Violation of the Sacred Species
Canon 1370: Laying violent hands on the Pope
Canon 1378: Absolution of an accomplice
Canon 1382: Episcopal consecration without authorization from the Holy See
Canon 1388: Violation of the seal of Confession by a confessor
Canon 1398: Procuring abortion

Yes, most of us know that apostasy, heresy or schism does indeed incur latae sententiae (automatic) excommunication.

Canon law on its own helps only to a certain extent in determining whether an individual is guilty of any of these. That’s why the advice of a priest must be sought.

Certainly none of us here are privy to enough information about cyberwolf’s situation to be able to say with certainty.

Not a knock on the OP, but this approach is quite unpopular nowadays. As a revert I’ve found that that changing my opinion isn’t quite as hard as it used to be.

I totally agree with you.

**You are dissenting, but you have a conscience about it. Yes you can go to confession about it. If you feel like you must leave then do it. But always know the door is open. :slight_smile: **

what happened to the origional poster?

I don’t know maybe he went to confession let’s hope, he sure was dissenting and troubled.:shrug:

:thumbsup: What anyone else says on the matter is irrelevant.

That list is almost an invitation to do all those things :slight_smile: (a common psychological reaction)

You’re mistaken about the Church’s teaching on salvation. There is a perfect continuity between what the Church teaches today and what it taught in centuries previous. From Unam Sanctam to Vatican II, there is no change in the doctrine, since this would be impossible for the Church to do.

The Church has always taught that no heretic (ie. someone who obstinately rejects Catholic doctrine) and no schismatic (ie. someone who obstinately remains out of communion with the Roman Pontiff.) can be saved. No document of the Church has ever said that an explicit membership is absolutely necessary, since the Church has acknowledged the possibility of a baptism of desire from the earliest times.

The modern Church doesn’t teach that people can reject the Church and go to heaven - this is a grave misconception which has resulted from decades of poor catechesis. Nowhere, in any document of the Church, will you find a denial of the traditional doctrine. There has been absolutely no change in content, although there certainly has been a change in emphasis and tone.

Yes, but the Church also teaches that it’s VERY DIFFICULT to be a heretic. You not only have to prove that someone’s views are heretical, but that he understands what the heck he’s doing and isn’t “invincibly ignorant” about it. Then you have to prove that he’s been told that he should take the Church’s view, had it explained why, and that he still obstinately refused while knowing the Church is right!

People here are awfully quick to call “heretic” on somebody.

Finally, I’m disgusted that nobody mentioned to the original poster that he should read Newman’s Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, which deals with most of his questions and worries. (It’s a really long book-length essay.)

Sigh.

Quoting Mintaka:

Finally, I’m disgusted that nobody mentioned to the original poster that he should read Newman’s Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, which deals with most of his questions and worries. (It’s a really long book-length essay.)

I have only been following this thread on an on/off basis…but could you PM the original poster with the above information?

Karl Rahner provides a more modern theological perspective on the development of doctrine and dogma.

Rahner, Karl. “The Development of Dogma.” In Theological Investigations, Vol. 1, God, Christ, Mary and Grace. Translated by Cornelius Ernst (London: Darton, Longman & Todd, 1961), 39-77.

Yeah, but Newman’s online and free. :slight_smile:

Re: above – Yes, I PM’d the original poster. Hope he’s okay.

[quote]
Yes, I PM’d the original poster. Hope he’s okay.

[/quote]

I am taking that the above is addressed to me:) . I am glad you have PM’d the original poster…the thread has gone way over my head and I have not been following hence every post. I hope he’s ok too!:thumbsup: and keeping him in prayer.

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