So many things don't make sense to me, like

When Bible people give prophecies why aren’t they more exact, like exact information and dates.

or why didn’t Mary appear to more people at her appearances.if she wanted to give a sign just appear and talk to everyone, no?

just thinkin’

If prophecies were exact, would it have made any difference?

If Mary appeared to all, how much difference would it have made?

a lot of difference, i think

ambiguity less so more believable.

many saw nothing at the cova.

Like what for instance?

ambiguity less so more believable.

many saw nothing at the cova.

Many saw and heard Jesus. Many did not believe he was who he said he was.

70,000 people were present when the miracle of the sun happened at Fatima. If 70,000 witnesses isn’t enough, I really don’t think any number would be

yes kinda hard to believe. but if i saw the loaves,fish miracle or walking on water, or Lazarus or his resurrection i would have believed.

remember we’re human and our senses and other people decieve us. we need definitive proofs. God must know that.

if you’re gonna provide a sign or miracle do it right and beyond doubt or nothing has changed.

a waste of His time…


Remember what Christ said to St. Thomas shortly after Christ’s Resurrection. I wonder what He meant?

God bless,

Like who? How “many” is many?

I’m with you friend, but the way I figure it is, Jesus himself came one last time in order to get as many Jews as he could. After all the old testament miracles you’d think the Jews would have believed too!! Right?! But now, just like in the OT every once in a while miracles happen in our day and age. God is still up to His mysterious ways that’s for sure. 70,000 people is a lot of people friend, atheists were among them to.

What about the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and the healing spring at Lourdes?

70,00 saw the miracle of the sun at Fatima. Not everyone could handle “seeing and hearing” Mary if she was to “appear” to them.

Did any of those seventy thousand see St. Mary when she reportedly appeared to the three children, though? On what basis did atheists who converted/reverted after they saw the “sun-dancing” incident conclude that a naturalistic explanation was out of the realm of possibility?

i don’t think the church has said it was real definitly. it’s up to each one.

don’t know that much about Guadalupe

but the Shroud is fascinating.

what do you guys think about it?

John 20-29 “Blessed are those who believe without seeing”

so true, bless them and you.

i need to see :shrug:

Jesus was known as the Messiah, was known for the miracles and teachings and the like, and yet he had people turn their backs on Him as soon as he said something they didn’t like or understand (“unless you eat my flesh…”).

God does not co-opt our free will by blatant displays of power. Personally, I am humbled and heartened that He gives us more credit than that. :slight_smile:

NONSENSE!!! You either have the gift of grace to believe or you don’t. In secular terms you are either disposed to believe or you aren’t, and all the logic and arguments in the universe will make no difference. Likewise not, the will to study the subject in the hope that learning will help you.
Get it into your head that there are no proofsthat will satisfy a non-believer.
As for those who may be poorly catechized “cradle” Catholics, I strongly suggest they take a chance, show a little humility before the Lord and ask for his grace to learn and believe. There are an infinate number of books and on line sites that one can find to teach about the faith.
But if all you want to do is argue about it; forget about it, you are just deluding yourself.

Taking it further, it would be nice if God revealed Himself to each of us personally. It doesn’t make sense to mere humans why He does not. Perhaps, the reason is (as an above poster mentioned) the beatitude that Jesus gives Thomas: “Blessed are those who have not seen what you have seen yet believe”. Perhaps it is because we are a ‘faithless generation’ and no sign shall be given us except the ‘sign of Jonah’. (Jonah gave no signs, yet the people repented immediately because of his call to do so.) But in any case, “God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom”.

As a side note, the Catholic faith does not depend on any of the apparitions of Mary being true nor of any particular prophesy being true. (Many of the prophesies that refer to Christ refer immediately to something else but also point to Christ in retrospect.) You are free to believe that the apparitions are a form of ‘mass hysteria’ similar to the phenomenon of UFOs if you so desire. With the important provision that you don’t deny that God DOES touch the world directly.

In other words, our faith can be enhanced by such signs and wonders, but it should never depend on it. After all, Paul says that you should “test the spirits”.

I think God isn’t clearer a lot of the time is because we need to have faith. Knowing something from physical evidence and believing it isn’t really faith, it’s common sense or something along those lines. I think those times when we just aren’t sure are beneficial, bacause things like knowledge and feelings are finite. If two people know a secret, and they’re the only ones, and never tell it, once they die the knowledge dies with them. No one else will ever know. So too would those physical signs eventually die away. I mean, seriously! When people ask for more signs of God’s presence, they don’t look to His miracles in the Old Testament, or His creation all around us, or the simple divine mystery of Jesus’s life, birth, death, and resurrection. And even those physical signs don’t provide as much surety as you may think. God gave the Isrealites countless signs in the desert, and yet they turned from Him repeatedly, didn’t they? Many of us have proabably done the same: ignored the miracles that Gos has already/I given us, and forgetting Him.

Also, the Israelites that came out of Egypt with Moses witnessed some of the greatest miracles ever but even having been eye witnesses to the parting of the Red Sea, the pillar of fire, Manna in the desert etc etc, only 2 of that generation actually entered the Promise Land.
Likewise, those who did see Mary at Fatima, Lourdes, etc suffered greatly afterwards. They were not believed, misunderstood, spent time in jail. Remember, some of God’s miracles are small, in the everyday things we see. stop looking for the big and thank God for your life and the beautiful world we live in. If you are looking for some big miracle to believe and say to yourself, I’ll believe if such and such happens, you are in for a big disappointment. When Jesus came before Herod, Herod asked him for a miracle. Herod saw nothing and Jesus never said a word to him. That is scary. don’t be Herod, looking for a show.

gosh,i’m not looking to argue or for a show. please give me more credit than that.

just for God to reach back my way, that’s all

and maybe humanities way, just for a little boost, that’s all.


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