So much for being "ecumenical",,


#1

So, I agree to meet with an old friend who has turned into a Baptist. He was very happy with his new found faith and he wanted to talk with me a bit about it. So I agree to meet with him and what does the conversation gets into?

According to the pastors in his church The Catholic Church.

  • turned the false god jupiter in st. Peter and the false goddess venus into mary.
  • had a century long perscution of christians and jews.
  • maked people believe that if they paid money their parents would be saved from hell to be able to pay for the huge church in rome
    - started up islam to get Jerusalem back
  • killed thousends of protestants for not following Catholosism
  • sent thousends of people of on crusades to fight thousends of other people fighting for a religion they started themselves
    -etc.

I could barely keep up with this stuff, he knows I am a Catholic so he did it to try and turn me off from The Church. It is like if The Church is one massive conspiracy or something. No wonder my patience for these people is at an all time low. You cannot be ecumenical with them. :mad:

Valz


#2

[quote=Valz]So, I agree to meet with an old friend who has turned into a Baptist. He was very happy with his new found faith and he wanted to talk with me a bit about it. So I agree to meet with him and what does the conversation gets into?

According to the pastors in his church The Catholic Church.

  • turned the false god jupiter in st. Peter and the false goddess venus into mary.
  • had a century long perscution of christians and jews.
  • maked people believe that if they paid money their parents would be saved from hell to be able to pay for the huge church in rome
    - started up islam to get Jerusalem back
  • killed thousends of protestants for not following Catholosism
  • sent thousends of people of on crusades to fight thousends of other people fighting for a religion they started themselves
    -etc.

I could barely keep up with this stuff, he knows I am a Catholic so he did it to try and turn me off from The Church. It is like if The Church is one massive conspiracy or something. No wonder my patience for these people is at an all time low. You cannot be ecumenical with them. :mad:

Valz
[/quote]

One of the funniest assertions I’ve seen–that the Church started Islam. I actually encountered this one a few months back. Such people should really read history before jumping on this one. That assertion alone can easily be refuted without using the Bible; all one needs is a good grasp on history and common sense.


#3

I would ask for reputable sources, which I doubt he could find. Anyone can make an assertion, don’t go on the defensive until he can back it up with proof. Joseph Smith’s golden plates conveniently vanished after he translated the Book of Mormon, the only “proof” we have is “cuz I sez so”. Anti-Catholics seem to use the same playbook.


#4

You should have just smiled in a fatherly manner, patted him on the hand and said, “There, there now. I’m sure you’ll wake up from this horrible dream some day. Until then, I’ll pray for you my brother; please pray for me.” People who have swallowed this sort of bilge just hate to be treated like they’re raving loonies, so do it often. Ha! :bounce:


#5

That is all straight from Jack Chick tracts. A lot of Baptist churches swear by them, especially in the south.


#6

Fairy stories, :whistle: get your friend to come on here, we’d all like to meet him. The end is nigh ! :rolleyes:


#7

Just curious;

What was the purpose in talking with him in the first place?


#8

With God nothing is impossible.

Do not assume that nothing good can come from your meetings with this man.

You cannot fight fire with fire.

So relax, take a deep breath and reanalyse the situation.

This man has just become a christian. In good faith, he is trying to convert you to his faith, though at this point he cannot comprehend his error.

You must treat him with love and patience, and entrust all to the Lord. l cannot stress how important this man will view his meetings with you when assessing catholicism in the future. He will see his errors in time, but you must be the beacon of light for him.

I pray that you will have every success with explaining our beautiful faith properly to this man.

In Christ.

Andre.


#9

[quote=jesusluv]That is all straight from Jack Chick tracts. A lot of Baptist churches swear by them, especially in the south.
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. This guy’s Pastor apparently has been reading books from Chick publications. He may also mention that Origen added the “appocrypha” to the Bible when he wrote the Septuagint. Or that Easter and Christmas are pagan. And of course, we worship the sun god.

Show his errors, but in a loving way. They can’t handle that. You’ll make it! :thumbsup:


#10

Ask your friend to ask his preacher man where Jimmy Hoffa is burried and who shot JFK! I would like to know this too. By the why, has he said how many aliens are in our society? I think I saw one the other day driving like a road hog. Where is the ‘mother ship’ berthed? Oh yea, why did the Catholic Church allow Hitler to fall? He was on a mission from Rome and seemed to never complete his mission? Oh yea, ask him why the Catholics faked the moon landing too? Was it to cover up the aliens building colonies with Protestant slaves digging in the mines?

It’s easier to preach hate then to justify thier own false man-made traditions of illogic.


#11

[quote=Xenos]What was the purpose in talking with him in the first place?
[/quote]

Well, he was very happy about his new found faith. So he wanted to share his experience with me. Or something like that, but it turned out more like he wanted to convert me.

Valz


#12

[quote=jesusluv]That is all straight from Jack Chick tracts. A lot of Baptist churches swear by them, especially in the south.
[/quote]

I have noticed that the Baptist churches preach a lot of hate against The Catholic Church. I am not sure why that is. But yeah, those things seem to be taken right out of Jack Chick tracts.

Valz


#13

First off I’d say pray and try to set a good example. Try to refute what he says wrong. Also try to focus on what you see is the same. I guess the main first step, is to try to get him to give the Catholic Church an honest and fair attempt in arguements. Try to be ecumenical, but that doesn’t mean going back on what you believe. After all if he starts to find his faith wanting, he may just remember the good fruits you had. So never be discouraged.


#14

[quote=Valz]So, I agree to meet with an old friend who has turned into a Baptist. He was very happy with his new found faith and he wanted to talk with me a bit about it. So I agree to meet with him and what does the conversation gets into?

According to the pastors in his church The Catholic Church.

  • turned the false god jupiter in st. Peter and the false goddess venus into mary.
  • had a century long perscution of christians and jews.
  • maked people believe that if they paid money their parents would be saved from hell to be able to pay for the huge church in rome
    - started up islam to get Jerusalem back
  • killed thousends of protestants for not following Catholosism
  • sent thousends of people of on crusades to fight thousends of other people fighting for a religion they started themselves
    -etc.

I could barely keep up with this stuff, he knows I am a Catholic so he did it to try and turn me off from The Church. It is like if The Church is one massive conspiracy or something. No wonder my patience for these people is at an all time low. You cannot be ecumenical with them. :mad:

Valz
[/quote]

Sometimes you can get the best compliment from your enemies. It is a testament to our fidelity to the Truth that they can only criticize us with lies.


#15

[quote=Valz]So, I agree to meet with an old friend who has turned into a Baptist. He was very happy with his new found faith and he wanted to talk with me a bit about it. So I agree to meet with him and what does the conversation gets into?

According to the pastors in his church The Catholic Church.

  • turned the false god jupiter in st. Peter and the false goddess venus into mary.
  • had a century long perscution of christians and jews.
  • maked people believe that if they paid money their parents would be saved from hell to be able to pay for the huge church in rome
    - started up islam to get Jerusalem back
  • killed thousends of protestants for not following Catholosism
  • sent thousends of people of on crusades to fight thousends of other people fighting for a religion they started themselves
    -etc.

I could barely keep up with this stuff, he knows I am a Catholic so he did it to try and turn me off from The Church. It is like if The Church is one massive conspiracy or something. No wonder my patience for these people is at an all time low. You cannot be ecumenical with them. :mad:

Valz
[/quote]

ok people… first off, let me say, i am Catholic… not only am i
Catholic, i PICKED the Catholic church… i wasn’t born Catholic…
the Catholic church wasn’t the first one i tried…
i picked it… i studied, prayed, attended Mass… and i decided
the Catholic faith was the right one… the complete one…

i was raised baptist… in Mississippi… which is as far south
as you can get, socially speaking… and i had never heard
of Jack Chick, untill i became Catholic… but, i had heard
of some of the things mentioned here, and not all of them
are “made up lies”, though they may not be the whole
truth either…

1…the part about the Church setting Jupiter up as Peter,
i haven’t heard, altho i have heard of the instances where
the Church ‘christianized’ pagan holidays…

2…persecution of christians and jews…
the inquisition, and
the crusades, we have all heard of those… the term christian
at that time, meant Catholic, so persecution of Protestants
wasn’t considered persecution of christians…

3…made people believe that if they paid money, their parents
would be saved from hell…
indulgences… in the 95 thesis
Martin Luther said, and it has been recorded in various
other places, that the church, or it’s representatives would
tell the people…
“when the coin hits the collection plate, another soul flies
out of purgatory”…

4…killing protestants…
protestants were killed, because of
the heresy they taught, the church says that it was civil
authorities that actually did the killing, but the fact remains
that they were killed to ‘appease’ the church…

5…the crusades, we know about…

6…the part about the church starting Isalm, i’ve never heard…

now, all that said, that was a long time ago, when things were
different than they are today… but, the fact remains, there are
truths and instances of wrong doing on both sides of the issue…

which the church has recognized…

BUT… none of this means that the Catholic Church isn’t the
right church, because it is, always has been…

:slight_smile:


#16

:confused: I have yet to figure out where some of my fellow protestants have gotten such weird ideas from (well actually I do know now - Chick tracks and the like - but why anyone would believe them I have no clue)

Until I started investigating the Catholic Church I had never heard of 99% of the Anti-Catholicism claims that are apparently abundant… The only Anti-Catholicism ideas I had ever heard (and I’m in the Bible Belt and am surrounded by Baptists and other similar denominations) was that Catholics “worshiped Mary” and that they didn’t believe in Sola Scriptura (oh and the idea that you could sin knowing you were going to confession later…LOL) All things I’ve found refuted…

but it amazes me what kinds of crazy ideas that some Protestants apparently have… actually it makes me fear for telling my friends that I am converting, because even though they have never said any of these kinds of things, I’m wondering - is it hiding under there somewhere? How could I have managed to never be exposed to these lunatic ideas?

Anyway - I just wanted to remind people that not ALL Protestants, and not even all Baptists have these views of Catholicism…

Even before I began to investigate the Church I would have never actively tried to “convert” someone who was an actively participating Catholic (my Catholic in name only family members - thats another story, lol) - to me before my realization that the Catholic Church is THE Church, I had always viewed Catholicism as a denomination much the same as any Protestant denomination - it wasn’t anymore true or false than any other that I disagreed with at the time…

of course I realize that too is offensive to Catholics - but at least I wouldn’t have reacted to you all the way some Protestants would have… (And you can be glad that I have “seen the light” LOL)


#17

That is true, but I think it is the minority opinion. Although at my current church (I am in the process of converting from an Evangelical denomination, Foursquare) anti-Catholicism isn’t preached from the pulpit these views are held by most of the congregation. Just try waltzing up to one of the pastors and saying, “hey, I just read this great encyclical from Pope XYZ”, you might as well have said you found some great quotes in the satanic bible.


#18

[quote=johnshelby]ok people… first off, let me say, i am Catholic… not only am i
Catholic, i PICKED the Catholic church… i wasn’t born Catholic…
the Catholic church wasn’t the first one i tried…
i picked it… i studied, prayed, attended Mass… and i decided
the Catholic faith was the right one… the complete one…

i was raised baptist… in Mississippi… which is as far south
as you can get, socially speaking… and i had never heard
of Jack Chick, untill i became Catholic… but, i had heard
of some of the things mentioned here, and not all of them
are “made up lies”, though they may not be the whole
truth either…

4…killing protestants…
protestants were killed, because of
the heresy they taught, the church says that it was civil
authorities that actually did the killing, but the fact remains
that they were killed to ‘appease’ the church…
[/quote]

No, heretics were not killed by their governments to “appease the church” but to maintain civil order. Please do a bit more research on the topic. :wink:

5…the crusades, we know about…

I shudder to think what people think they “know”! This is another area that needs to be carefully researched in order to understand what was really happening and why.


#19

[quote=Della]No, heretics were not killed by their governments to “appease the church” but to maintain civil order. Please do a bit more research on the topic. :wink:

I shudder to think what people think they “know”! This is another area that needs to be carefully researched in order to understand what was really happening and why.
[/quote]

no matter how you phrase it, ‘to maintain civil order’, was needed
because of church teachings… which in the case of the most
infammatory teachings, like selling indulgences and only
allowing the scriptures to be printed in latin, have since been
rejected by the church…

the same is true of the crusades, the church did not institute
the crusades, but they didn’t discourage them either, and
rewarded a number of those who participated… (( read the
Bull of the Crusades ))

i realize that you can find apologetic material that will refute
these things… but, you can find just as much that can
show some of the reasons for the Protestant movement…

:slight_smile:


#20

[quote=johnshelby]no matter how you phrase it, ‘to maintain civil order’, was needed
because of church teachings… which in the case of the most
infammatory teachings, like selling indulgences and only
allowing the scriptures to be printed in latin, have since been
rejected by the church…
[/quote]

No, again you are misinformed. Governments of Catholic countries certainly looked to the Church for guidance, but they enforced their laws against certain heresies because those heresies called for people to break the civil laws about marriage and other such institutions, which would have destabilized the whole of society, the way our “sexual revolution” has destabilized ours.

the same is true of the crusades, the church did not institute
the crusades, but they didn’t discourage them either, and
rewarded a number of those who participated… (( read the
Bull of the Crusades ))

I think you are still reading into these things old Protestant biases–probably not consciously, of course. I did it too for a long time after entering the Church. It can take many years of immersing oneself in Catholic culture and world view before you finally shed this last vestige of our WASP upbringing. :wink:

i realize that you can find apologetic material that will refute
these things… but, you can find just as much that can
show some of the reasons for the Protestant movement…

:slight_smile:

And, of course there were some legitimate concerns on the Protestant side during the Reformation, but they were resolved by the Church over time, some quite quickly (considering how slowly the wheels of the Vatican turn) and some not for much longer, but they did change. There was no need for any wholesale abandonment of the Church in the 16th century, that is still damaging millions of lives to this day.


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