so i talked to my friend today, and a couple days ago he was telling me bad things the catholic church did, so i told my friend bad things martin luther did… i guess today he went to his gf’s house and told her parents what i said (btw her parents are both pastors) and hes tellin me now that her parents said that everything bad about martin luther was fake, and that martin luther didnt even start the protestant religion ! i told him he did but he doesnt believe me…i think the thing is that he thinks her parents are really smart, so whatever they tell him hes gonna believe… and he brought up the 7 missing books they dont have and he said her parents said that the books are just history books and nothing else…what should i tell him !!! her parents are feeding him lies about the RCC !!!
Get yourself a copy of an original 1611 King James Bible and show him some of the cross references in the margins of some of the New Testament books. When he sees some of the apocraphal books referenced in the the margins, ask him why the KJ translators would bother referencing these “history books”.
If sola scriptura is true and you go by the bible alone why make reference to extra-biblical material?
If they’re just going to deny history what can you do? :shrug:
Buy a history book or borrow one from the library and show it to him?
Or just drop the arguement all together and try to love and serve them as Jesus would. Be is His hands and feet. The more you ignore the lesser arguements the more you can do for the Kingdom. If they were denying the Trinity, call them heritics, and teach them.
Now the answer you want to hear. You can argue of the Deutro-Cannonical books all day long, but without the Book of Maccabees you cant fully understand the way of Christ. 170 odd year before JC, started “Talkin bout a Revolution”.
The evil Greeks, but a statue in the temple, Bam, Jewish revolt goes off, the get beat of the sabbath, then they break it to win. Revolt breaks Gods law to defend the Temple law.
Option 1: Kill the people who put up statues in your temple, and break Gods law to fight and win.
Then the counter point of Daniel teaches us the concept of one coming like the “Sun of Man”. Who will help defeat empires through the power of resurection and non-violence. Read Daniel 7. Look the all the talk about the horns, then read some history books. Find out which king is which, you are gonna have to some work here dont let me down. The concept of resurection first comes up.
Option 2: Trust in YHWH, (JC is coming soon). Don’t break God’s law. When push comes to shove, trust in YHWH not your sword, dont do a Maccabeen revolt. This is a key theological issue
Without the books of Maccabees, you cant fully understand Daniel and its message. Thats why its in teh Catholic Bible. Just so you know option 2 is the way of God’s people.
Ask your friend if he would be interested in going to other sources besides his g/f’s parents. If he is not, then all you can really do is answer each of his questions one at a time.
The reality of human beings within the arms of the Holy Mother Church ‘doing bad things’ is one that no one should deny. It makes us look foolish to do so…however, what I try to point out to people is that a standard of behavior that is good and true is not invalidated by our inability to live up to that standard every single day. The Church is full of sinners and always has been - where else would we have them go?
Therefore, start from the premise that the Church teaches, guards and passes on Truth. Never be afraid to proclaim that fact. Acknowledge that we, as members of the Body of Christ, have never been perfect but the fact that the Church still exists, despite all efforts to destroy her, is a pretty solid indication that she is the true Bride of Christ.
Do you see the lack of actual facts that they are telling him?
Suggest that he do his own homework and that he get the facts for himself and make his own decision.
One of the best ever investments that you will make in your faith is the Beginning Apologetics series from San Juan Catholic Seminars.
i told him he did but he doesnt believe me…i think the thing is that he thinks her parents are really smart, so whatever they tell him hes gonna believe… and he brought up the 7 missing books they dont have and he said her parents said that the books are just history books and nothing else…
This article will help a lot. 5 Myths about 7 Books
Bear in mind that he has a vested interest in getting along with his GF’s folks and so that is possibly influencing his thinking.
what should i tell him !!! her parents are feeding him lies about the RCC !!!
avoid using the n-C/a-C acronym “RCC” for our most holy faith. I generally refer to it as the Catholic Church or Catholic faith.
Bury him in sources. Every time he offers something, answer with a list of sources that refute it. Printed material is best.
Pray for him.
Look, your “friend” doesn’t WANT to have fair and balanced discussion. He doesn’t WANT to research on his own and discover whether the things these people are telling him are true.
I don’t know how much you will be able to do if his response to everything you say is that it’s made up. He clearly has his head buried in the sand.
On the reformation I suggest two books by Hillaire Belloc. They are short and easy to read:
How the Reformation Happened
Characters Of The Reformation
If he won’t read them, or thinks they are “fake” then he is way too far gone for you to help him. These facts are not disputed by ANY historian or most theologians/churches. Only a really fringe sect would claim that the information about Luther was fake. Luther’s own writings are available to dispute them.