So, rock/popular music

OK, so. We've all seen it. Someone who, personally, condemns rock or other genres of music as being immoral or whatnot. Or course, everyone has a right to shun whatever form of music or other entertainment they choose, but this is one that's always confused me.

See, I can understand why in general. Rock is often known for degrading or oversexual lyrics, and for musicians who lead highly immoral lives. However, I've always been confused in, wouldn't that be more like, shunning particular songs or artists, rather than an entire genre? because there are rock or pop artists who don't sing about vulgar things, and artists from metal opera and country who could be singing about very inappropriate things. Yet it's always just rock that is condemned. :shrug:

Now, I'm not that big on rock. I like a few classic rock songs, but I don't have one particular genre I stick to. I like a little of everything, as long as it isn't filthy or talking about thugs and drugs and...you get the idea. And, my music collection consists of a lot of inspiring, clean, beautiful songs that aren't expressively Christian, from rock, pop, country, jazz...

So anyway, my point is, why do we focus on the immorality of one genre, when not all song that are rock are immoral, and not all songs that are immoral are rock? :shrug:

I don’t focus on the entire genre (and sub-genres) of rock as being immoral in total as some other both Catholics and non-Catholics do.

That is comparable to condemning all biographies in print, because there are some detailing the lives of the most unsavory characters in history.

Rock songs don’t all have the same story to tell. They all haven’t been dedicated to the devil (Fr. Corapi has talked about bands that have), and they don’t all have those perverse undertones to get certain functions in a frenzy.

Yes, there are evil people that do make music with the intent of glorifying the devil, and in the process bringing the people that listen to it into sin, and Godlessness.

But remember that God created music as a means for us to praise Him and to express ourselves in this medium.

Everything that happens can and will be turned into good by His Will.

I'm kinda like you. I'm not fully exclusive to one genre as long as I like what I hear. Furthermore, I'm one of those eccentrics who imagines things while listening to music. That's why if you ever see my playlist, it's all full of songs that were featured on movies and shows (most of them being the opening/ending themes of Japanese cartoons :o).

However, I find that a majority of songs that I do like would seem to be rock... if there even is a definition of what rock music is supposed to sound like. I'm no music junkie but a lot of the songs I listen to make heavy use of drums and electric guitars. I just feel pumped up and fiery hearing tunes like that.

I find that anyone who says that such music is immoral or satanic would find himself having to prove the impossible if they were to ever argue with me. I listen to a lot of songs both local, Western, and non-western (in Japanese no less). Now usually people who believe that rock music is of the devil use the lyrics of a certain bad rock song as an example. I ask those people, "What about songs where you don't even know the meaning? How would you prove they're evil?"

Always after that they resort to ad homs against the artists or anything related to them. Yeah, they really have an intellectual position. :rolleyes:

Now see, LW, I AM an eccentric who pictures things while listening to music, though it’s usually an AMV running through my head.

I too listen to a lot of Japanese music, pop and rock. I always look up the lyrics in English to see what I’m listening to. Considering the majority if my anime is shoujo, most of the music is all about the power of love and friendship XD Not offensive in the least, but happy and bubbly as heck

I don’t know anyone personally who’s offended by rock or pop as a genre. The people who think it’s the devil’s music are a teeny tiny minority, at least in the West.

Jimi Hendrix,Janis Joplin,Pink Floyd,Bob Dylan,Bob Marley,The Eagles,Grateful Dead,Lynyrd Skynyrd,Marshall Tucker Band,Allman Bros.Band......<---Best music in the world,I don't care what nobody says.

Just my opinion though:thumbsup:

[quote="shondrea, post:4, topic:190798"]
Now see, LW, I AM an eccentric who pictures things while listening to music, though it's usually an AMV running through my head.

I too listen to a lot of Japanese music, pop and rock. I always look up the lyrics in English to see what I'm listening to. Considering the majority if my anime is shoujo, most of the music is all about the power of love and friendship XD Not offensive in the least, but happy and bubbly as heck

[/quote]

Sometimes the translation isn't there though. ;w; Take this one song I just found to my liking Last Train -Atarashii Asa-. No English translation in animelyrics yet but like all ops, they make me imagine my own version of it with my fanfiction OCs. XD

In the case of this song, I imagine them...

...in dramatic angles...
...facing their rivals...
...drawing out cards flashily...
...their signature monsters behind them...
...playing a crazy card game on motorcycles...

... oh great, I'm making another reference again... :blush:

Oh well! :whacky:

Cards? Motorcycles? Dramatically facing rivals? This sounds like a job for…

http://www.la.cityzine.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/l_9c7d2842cd68ae1a71c0981e2a95a1b8.jpg

In my opnion, banning any one genre of music because of a small percentage of population who may (or may not since I can’t prove anything) be “promoting” immorality would be the same as banning the Catholic Faith because of a tiny percentage of fallen priests.

I don’t listen to much rock any more but I do enjoy those that I listen to and feel as though in 40+ years of listening it hasn’t negatively impacted my relationship with God.

OK you’ve opened the door allow me to walk in and make a couple of points to think about.

First let me start out by stating that I am a rock drummer. I have actually played every style from Punk Rock to Polkas.

Now on to the discussion at hand. There have been some who have suggested that the music takes them to another place or that it helps conjure up images. One of the biggest reasons why many Christians claim that rock music is from the devil is because of that very point. When you are thinking about other things you are not in prayer to God. If you are supposed to make your whole life a prayer then watching TV, listening to other than - religious music, etc is a distraction from the Lord not a path to him.

Many people listen to music (rock especially) because it takes them to a place where they don’t have work, kids, school or other frustrations to deal with. Its all about the music. Drugs and alcohol is a similar high and that is why the two go together sometimes.

What a lot of people don’t realize is that you can get the same high or even a much better one by silent prayer or a great chant prayer.

I personally like a lot of genres of music. I can tell you that the majority of times that I am listening to the radio or watching TV, facebook, work, school, etc my mind does not drift toward the Lord. There just seems to be way to many distractions. How can we expect to hear the Lord when we are always filling our minds with stuff. I have been struggling with this fact a lot as my devotion to the Lord is growing.

This does not mean that I do not listen to it or watch TV but I have been struggling lately.

[quote="donr, post:10, topic:190798"]
OK you've opened the door allow me to walk in and make a couple of points to think about.

First let me start out by stating that I am a rock drummer. I have actually played every style from Punk Rock to Polkas.

Now on to the discussion at hand. There have been some who have suggested that the music takes them to another place or that it helps conjure up images. One of the biggest reasons why many Christians claim that rock music is from the devil is because of that very point. When you are thinking about other things you are not in prayer to God. If you are supposed to make your whole life a prayer then watching TV, listening to other than - religious music, etc is a distraction from the Lord not a path to him.

Many people listen to music (rock especially) because it takes them to a place where they don't have work, kids, school or other frustrations to deal with. Its all about the music. Drugs and alcohol is a similar high and that is why the two go together sometimes.

What a lot of people don't realize is that you can get the same high or even a much better one by silent prayer or a great chant prayer.

I personally like a lot of genres of music. I can tell you that the majority of times that I am listening to the radio or watching TV, facebook, work, school, etc my mind does not drift toward the Lord. There just seems to be way to many distractions. How can we expect to hear the Lord when we are always filling our minds with stuff. I have been struggling with this fact a lot as my devotion to the Lord is growing.

This does not mean that I do not listen to it or watch TV but I have been struggling lately.

[/quote]

I agree with the above, which is why I try to balance my reading and listening of stuff with random prayers, reading material about the Church, Saints (G.K. Chesterton on St. Francis :D), and other topics, reading parts of the Bible, end of the day rosary, and other practices.

I don't really have a solution with music (I love listening to music as much as alot of us do) but I have a sort of practice with reading stories or watching something with an actual plot. I usually try to picture a Saint, Angel, or Jesus himself in the plotline and ponder how things might be a bit different than a certain story is now.

I did this alot with Kishimoto's Manga Naruto... with its weakening plot and logic breaking events that should've never happened.

Plus, ten minutes of silence isn't too bad.

Just thought I give my two cents. :thumbsup:

...Ehhh, sorry for going off topic :( .

The thing is, how do you know that that’s a life that everybody is supposed to live? If God is such an attention seeker as such religious people paint Him, then why did He not ask the Church to rule that people should go to Mass for three hours everyday and not simply the one hour on Sunday? I mean come on, there are a lot of pious folks on this site alone. Even that by itself, gives God a lot more attention and company compared to those who are happy to just have one best friend because they’ve lived a life of being socially outcast. Thus, I highly doubt He’s that demanding.

One problem: define ‘better’. I myself find prayer to be a good way to contemplate my life and what I believe in. I argue with myself, go to the little Philosopher’s Corner in my mind, and strengthen my sense of reasoning.

On the other hand, when I need to think about what characters to create, what scenes should I make vital to my plot, what archenemies they’ll have, what themes should I center their abilities around… I play the opening song of whatever new anime I’m watching now and try to imagine my own version.

(And in this case, it’s this one. To Havard: Sorry if you didn’t get the reference but don’t worry, your comment was still very funny. Italian Spiderman? LOL! And I thought the Japanese version was crazy enough. :p)

How about we turn this around. What if your mind is already free from these distractions? You pray the Rosary everyday. You spend half an hour in the Adoration chapel. You devote your time to wanting to hear God’s voice. However, all of a sudden you don’t hear Him at all. He is silent.

In case you didn’t know, stuff like that always happens to religious people at some point. Heck the latest controversy surrounding Mother Teresa is centered on her struggle with God’s silence. I’ve seen a few pious gals on these forums who find themselves suddenly being distant from God no matter how much they prayed.

I on the other hand, don’t have much trouble coping with such silence because since my mind is so full of “distractions” as you imply I probably don’t hear the Lord and experience that religious high you speak of so highly. Thus, I don’t easily feel the despair or disappointment that comes with God’s silence.

It’s true that these distractions have a potential to become more distracting to the point that they make you neglect your duties. However, that just makes it equal to the pious life in terms of how it could go wrong. It makes it so that neither path is the best in being Catholic.

I have to disagree. One of the very natures of shounen is that it likes plot twists. You can’t always be certain about something. The author likes to leave fans in speculation. That’s how it’s always been. Naruto is no exception.

[quote="Lost_Wanderer, post:12, topic:190798"]
The thing is, how do you know that that's a life that everybody is supposed to live? If God is such an attention seeker as such religious people paint Him, then why did He not ask the Church to rule that people should go to Mass for three hours everyday and not simply the one hour on Sunday? I mean come on, there are a lot of pious folks on this site alone. Even that by itself, gives God a lot more attention and company compared to those who are happy to just have one best friend because they've lived a life of being socially outcast. Thus, I highly doubt He's that demanding.

[/quote]

First, the Lord never said give me one hour on a Sunday. The Commandment is Keep Holy the Sabbath. The Church is the one that determine that you must attend Holy Mass on Sunday (The day the Lord rose from the dead).
The problem with your statement is that you are not aware that your whole life is supposed to be dedicated to the Lord (a prayer). You do not need to be a religious in order to dedicate your day to the Lord. You can offer your talent of art, music or what ever your job is for any particular day to the Lord. You don't need to deny or forget about the Lord becuase of what you are doing. I am an engineer if I focused 100% of my dad only on the Lord I would not have a job for long. But through out the day I might say a prayer that God help me through a project and I always treat my piers, and bosses as children of God. When I get home and am doing the dishes I'll say a prayer.

One problem: define 'better'. I myself find prayer to be a good way to contemplate my life and what I believe in. I argue with myself, go to the little Philosopher's Corner in my mind, and strengthen my sense of reasoning.

I define better as having a more lasting and / or tingling feeling in my body than I have ever had with drugs or alcahol. I like the way you pray. Prayer is simply talking to God. My point is are you listening to/for Gods response. Some times just going up to the mountains or hanging out in the dark you can have a religious experience (no drugs).

How about we turn this around. What if your mind is already free from these distractions? You pray the Rosary everyday. You spend half an hour in the Adoration chapel. You devote your time to wanting to hear God's voice. However, all of a sudden you don't hear Him at all. He is silent.

In case you didn't know, stuff like that always happens to religious people at some point. Heck the latest controversy surrounding Mother Teresa is centered on her struggle with God's silence. I've seen a few pious gals on these forums who find themselves suddenly being distant from God no matter how much they prayed.

I say a daily rosary and 1 hour in Chapel on Saturdays. I also play rock music. I understand your statement about dedicating your life and then feel nothing. What I say to this is that God constantly alows tests to our devotion. We put up blocks. The key is what do we do with that lack of feeling of the Lords presence. You'll notice that Mother Teresa still went about God's work. She may have had her down moments but always praised the Lord and kept the faith.

I on the other hand, don't have much trouble coping with such silence because since my mind is so full of "distractions" as you imply I probably don't hear the Lord and experience that religious high you speak of so highly. Thus, I don't easily feel the despair or disappointment that comes with God's silence.

I feel sad for you if you actually feel this way and will dedicate my rosary tonight for you.
You don't understand the despair or disappointment that comes with God's silence. I would much rather know that despair than to have never felt it. Having distractions in your life is not the cure for not hearing the Lord. If you were the devil you would want as souls to have as many distractions in their lives to keep them not focused on the Lord. Kids needs cells phones and IPOds, the Wii but do they ever just sit in silence and pray. Look around you do you think society is more or less religious then prior to the invent of media. I'm not saying that media is pure evil, I would never do that. But like everything else to much of a good thing is an abuse and possibly a sin.

It's true that these distractions have a potential to become more distracting to the point that they make you neglect your duties. However, that just makes it equal to the pious life in terms of how it could go wrong. It makes it so that neither path is the best in being Catholic.

Again, if you dedicate your job, family and life to God (no Religious Vocation) and things go wrong you are still in better company than if you deny the Lord and things go wrong.

Pray for me, I will pray for you.

God Bless

Actually, you’re just simply making a compromise with modern life, a path different (note I just say different, not sinful or wrong) from the type of spirituality associated with the saints of medieval times. I for one do all I can to use my talents for the cause of Christianity in the way I know myself best. I would admit, my method makes it difficult to see in a good light from the eyes of traditional religious but my intention is the same as theirs when it comes to standing for what is right.

I’m afraid that your “tingling” feeling is not exactly a good motivation for espousing any religion. One thing’s for sure, it’s incompatible when you try to make a reasonable defense of your beliefs. Secondly, people say the same thing about their own religions (in fact, New Age religions espouse this very “feel-good” philosophy).

It’s why I prefer to keep my relationship with God purely intellectual (at least for the next 9-12 years of my life). People who rely on feelings of religious euphoria, as I have stated, are setting themselves up for a painfully long silence.

I’m afraid you really misunderstood my point. I’m merely saying that if you’re going the path of pious spirituality, you will experience the difficulty of coping with the absence of God’s presence. Folks like me, who don’t rely on such feelings have an easier time not to mention have more preferences to focus on matters at hand (school, work, career etc).

I’m confused. Are you saying that I’m supposed to get all mopey and depressed just because I don’t feel a religious high? Furthermore, I feel that you’re being a tad harsh in labeling the alternatives as “distractions”.

Let me tell you a story I always like telling religious people. There was once a man lost in the flood. A rescue boat came to save him but the man refused. You see, he was very religious and believed God would save him. Next, a helicopter came and he still refused.

Eventually he drowned and when he finally arrived in Heaven, he angrily said to God, “Why didn’t you save me!?”

God said, “Fool! Who do ya think sent that boat? That helicopter? What were expecting, a golden chariot!?”

The moral of the story: When we ask God for something (in this case, a safe form of high), sometimes he’s already given it to us. It’s just that he’s not always traditional about it.

I don’t know how on topic this is:

Servant - Holy Roller Blues
youtube.com/watch?v=IhpXKK39jgo
Petra - This means War - Spiritual Warfare against our Enemy
youtube.com/watch?v=VzhHc8rofHo&feature=related
Petra - Without Him we can do nothing (Greg X Volz) LEGENDADO
youtube.com/watch?v=2cUYWUFOReY&feature=related
Resurrection Band - Love comes Down
youtube.com/watch?v=DmuOEonwwNI
Rez - Right on Time (Resurrection Band)
youtube.com/watch?v=nv2SyYZYAZo&feature=related
Keith Green - Lies
youtube.com/watch?v=a96P2CebMb8
Keith Green - If you love the Lord
youtube.com/watch?v=_itu0dbnD94&feature=related
To calm everyone down - Servant - Come Jesus
youtube.com/watch?v=PuqT8sV-TK0

Good Night.
Your Brother & Your Servant, Michael

...

Aaaand we're this close to getting into a nother "secular entertainment is the Devil" discussion.

I love how people assume God is absent in anything that isn't outright praising him. I paint. I have no intention of ever painting anything religious. But that doesn't mean I can't glorify God in my painting y painting things that God beautifully made. Why can't secular music be the same? Fireflies doesn't talk about religion or God once, but the song is so innocent, so simple and pretty, it reminds one of all the things that are right and good in the world, all the things that GOD made.

A love song, a true romance, not a sexual song; it's glorifying a beautiful, chaste romance, in turn glorifying the sanctity of love and the way God intended it.

Just because something doesn't bring everyone's ind to God in some way, doesn't mean it's true for everyone. EVERYTHING we do, listen to, read, enjoy can be traced back to God. God gave the singers their voices, the writers their gift for word's. Even if they aren't singing about him, they can be honoring his love all the same.

Of course, this doesn't include things that are raunchy or explicit or grisly for the sake of being so, but I don't listen to things like that anyway.

I don't feel a "high" when I'm praying. Sorry, but I don't. I've never, ever in my life felt an emotional atatchment to prayer or the like. I feel joy in religion, but I don't feel "tingly" when I pray. Never have. But listen to a beautiful, uplifting song? Brings up my spirits, clears my head, makes it easier to pray without worries and distractions nagging at my head.

ANYway, my point, that I kinda forgot (XD) is that music can glorify God by glorifying all the good he made, even if he’s not mentioned. I come back to Fireflies, which is my current favorite song. I get depressed, a lot, and feel like there’s no reason to get up, get out of bed. The world is ugly and scary and dangerous and I hate it. Of course I pray and think about God during these times, but I also like listening to music. All it takes is a play or two of Fireflies to remind me that there is a lot of GOOD in the world, that it doesn’t have to be scary or dangerous, and motivate me to get out of bed. God may not be in the song in name, but his will is certainly there in the message I hear :slight_smile:

Thanks for the suggestions Traditional Ang. Normally I don’t like Christian pop/rock, but I do like Brooke Fraser a lot (thanks C!). Especially the following songs:

CS Lewis Song
Shadowfeet
Hymn

Ok, I can see I’m being misunderstood.

I never said rock music is evil or from the devil, I play it. I was simply pointing out how some people can come to the conclusion that things that distract you from hearing God’s voice isn’t always a good thing. I never said that you shouldn’t do what you love to do that isn’t religious. We all have our jobs our hobbies and our families. I have not said you should deny your very existence and only follow your feelings about the Lord.

I have mentioned my personal tingling sensation that happen to me sometimes (not always) when I pray. This has not caused my faith or made it stronger it is a symptom of it (I believe). I hope I never gave the impression that you need this feeling in order to know the Lord, it was not my intent.

I agree with the story of the guy trapped in a flood. My first thought when reading it was why didn’t the dummy take the boat. I personally believe it would have been God that had sent it, and I believe that most “religious” as it was put would also.

Whether you are a saint of old or a saint today does not depend on what I or anyone else thinks about you. It only matters what God thinks about you. He is the only one that really knows what is inside your heart, mind and soul. I’m just simply asking you to take time out of your busy schedule for a little one on one with the Lord. You might be surprised at what you find out about yourself and what God may want for your life.

Use the talents that God has given you, just do it as an offering to him. It doesn’t have to be about God, I never said that. I’m sure if you did though It might please him, the Church is always looking for artists (drawings, paintings, music, decorating, cabinet making, etc.).

I'm sorry to have misunderstood you in your previous posts, my apologise :)

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