So what if I don't like wings and halos?

Since we’re nearing the culmination of the Halloween season, it’s only expected to see rising threads on the subject.

Whilst reading some of them however, I really can’t help but get this bad impression from some fellow Catholics here. The impression is that if I have a thing for skulls, bats, witches, and dark colors, I’m somehow a blackened soul corrupted by Satan?

To these people, I just gotta ask. What exactly is the connection between a person’s aesthetic preferences and his/her sense of morality?

Folks, symbolism isn’t as set in stone as a lot of you would want to think. I fail to see why my disinterest (or even aversion at times) towards bright, shining angels with golden armor automatically translates into me having a malformed conscience. Has it ever occurred to y’all that some people just don’t like the color white and find feathery, fluffy wings less than edifying?

Another issue I have, albeit not as heatedly, is some of the alternative costumes being suggested in other threads. I mean sure if you wanna go dress up in a nun’s/priest’s/friar’s garb and say you’re one of the saints fine. If you’re a girl and want to dress up in armor like St. Joan, I might even have cool suggestions for that.

On the other hand, I’m an RPG nerd so I’m gonna have to say right now that cleric and knight are my least favorite job classes. Surely there’s nothing wrong with dressing up as something not religious is there?

Well that’s all I wanted to say right now. Honestly it just boggles me that so many people are so attached to the… well attachments of certain things. It’s like people don’t know that “Don’t Judge a Book by its Cover” applies to more than just books. -.-

I think a Crusader costume is really cool, so many colors and heraldics to choose, or what about a Nazareno… or a costume based in the vestments worn by Saint Cyril of Alexandria:

But maybe that is because I like armors, and patterned designs. :smiley:

Personally, I think that is better to dress the children as something religious.

Aaand, for your first question, well, I don’t think you’re some corrupted being or something for liking dark things.

Sorry if I contributed to that impression.



From your posts I gather that you’re young Lost Wanderer. You have to remember that there is a generational age gap between you and many other posters, hence disagreement about suitable halloween costumes and popular culture/media and what impressions costumes give today.

I won’t assume anything about morality whether you want to dress in a dark (for the sake of argument lets say goth) style rather than a saint. Studies have shown that (for the sake of argument here again) that young people who are part of the goth culture are more likely to become lawyers, or love english literature, and be less sexually promiscuous than other teenage groups - despite all the heavy metal, dark eyeliner and jewelry. That’s a good example I always use whenever I wear my Three Wolves Shirt…

Personally, I like wings and halos. And the color white.

On the other hand, I also like the color black.

I don’t like skulls, witches, or anything else like that. I don’t believe that people who like these things are corrupt. I do wonder why you like them though. I mean, skulls symbolize death and witches are evil and, I don’t know, I just wonder why people would want to associate themselves with that. Even if you don’t care about the symbolism, other people are going to think you do… and while it doesn’t matter a whole bunch what they think about you, we kinda are supposed to be Christ to others…

I’m no expert, but I have found that the more I fill my head with Halloweenish stuff, the more I feel kinda… I don’t know … distant from God or something. Like, you look at the saints and their faces practically glow and then you dress up as some monster from hell and it’s like the total other end of the spectrum, you know?

Why must I rationalize my tastes? If I wanted to rationalize something, I’d save it for morality subjects and not something as inherently relativistic like art.

Besides, is death such a bad thing? Last time I checked my theology, death is just a natural part of life. If death is so evil, why is it part of going to heaven? Why is St. Michael himself depicted as a psychopomp? The subject also gives people all sorts of fascinating speculation about what lies beyond.

As for witches, I’m pretty sure Harry Potter and the rest of the fantasy genre would like to have a word with you on that.

Yes well those people are, frankly, ignorant for even modern semiotics leans towards the theory of separating meaning from form. By themselves, colors, shapes, symbols, etc… they have NO value. They just are. Red is red. Circle is circle.

It’s like Beauty and the Beast and The Frog Prince never entered the world.

Well I’m sorry to say that it’s just you because you’ve allowed your sense of taste to be a sort of fallacious indicator of your morality, spirituality etc.

And glowing? Sorry but, ick. Like I said, I can’t stand brightness. Too much of it can even blind people.

Besides, whose to say a ‘monster from hell’ couldn’t very well be your ticket out of it? :wink: I would also argue that there are just as many monstrous things preaching from pulpits and dressed in shining armor as there are heroes in black leather and ride dragons. :cool:

It’s not really just older people. I’ve had one or two others even younger than my age who find my fascination for warlocks, dragons, and grim reapers worrisome and my derision for angels, paladins, and meadows even more so.

Generally speaking, the iconic depiction of angels as toga-wearing, Anglo-Saxon men/women with white fluffy wings and a halo has no theological basis. If you wanted be authentic, you’d have to strap on a set of 12 wings, glue some eyes on each of those, have a set of animal masks to rotate through during the night, then light yourself on fire. Authentic! :wink:

LW, if you’re trying to pick a fight with the nut cases on here, you’re going to have to suggest more outrageous costume ideas. :smiley: But, if you’re going to a party where people are going to judge you on whether your costume meets non-occult requirements, you’re probably at the wrong party.

I know rite? It’s yet one more reason why I can’t understand this insistence on their glorification. The same logic also applies to images of the devil.

Nah, I’ve just been meaning to say something like this for the past month since the Halloween threads started. :rolleyes: Besides, even if I was looking to kill time, I’m not sure I’d want to risk my membership by suggesting the costumes I got in my head. :p:o

It’s not about costume parties really. I just like the costume culture of Halloween. And granted my hobby, I think a lot of people might suspect why. :o;):smiley:

If you have a preference for skulls and darkness, I’m sure you’ll get a kick out of Mexico’s festivals for the next few days as Dia de los Muertos is coming up…

Yeah I heard about that. It’s pretty cool.
On the other hand, when it comes to horror, I have strong preference for gothic fantasy. :stuck_out_tongue:
It’s quite strange though given that I actually despise vampires.

Then again, it’s probably because I like fantasizing myself going head-to-head with one in such a setting. Furthermore, you won’t see me using silver weapons, crucifixes, or all that classic religious stuff. I’m thinking more of torching the bastard as a black dragon in wizard form or being invulnerable to their bites cuz I’m a lich-like grim reaper ehehehehe… :cool:

It seems that for the past several years, our parish has been trying to transition from having the children celebrate Halloween to celebrating an All Saints Party where each of the children dress up like a favorite saint. For the past couple of years, they have also included a “trunk or treat” event where parents and whoever else signs up can park their cars with candy in their trunks in the school parking lot. The children do not have to dress in saints costumes but they do tend to keep it without the gore and evil themes. The children go " trunk or treating" from car to car. It was a big hit last year so they are doing it again this year.
Catholic parents seem to be more concerned these days about not letting their little ones dress up like witches and things that are of an evil nature as well as blood and gore. I can’t blame them. You are older and probably not under the control of your parents any more. As far as your wanting to decorate with skulls and tombstones etc. reminding people that man is dust and to dust he shall return, there is nothing wrong with that. Just keep in mind that Good is more powerful than evil.

It would be a mistake to leave out the use of the crucifix and other Catholic sacramentals. in fighting againt evil. At least the horror movie writers got that right!

There’s nothing inherently baptized about glowing visages, wings or halos. They’re images that most people find suggestive of otherworldliness. If you aren’t one of them, fine.

But symbols DO tend to mean something. Humans are a union of body and soul. As catholics, we understand this and reject the assertions of some that we are souls trapped in bodies. Our bodies are part of who we are, which is why there is going to be a resurrection.

Death is not a normal condition for humans. It is a result of sin, and it will be done away with at the end of days. If you are overly fond of images of human skulls and bones and other symbols suggestive of death, you may wish to reflect on why they hold such attraction to you during your regular prayer times. Not saying you are, just suggesting it IF you are.

Tell that to werewolves and Frankenstein’s monster. :rolleyes:

You’re confusing material reality with spiritual reality. In the material reality (and I’m sure science backs me up on this) death IS a normal condition. All things whither and die. And setting aside the fact that nobody even knows how the end of days would occur, I’m not going to consider what you mean by destruction of death at the end of days.

What you just described is called ‘dualism’ and is foreign to catholic teaching. There is no divide between the material and spiritual worlds. There is only Creation, some of which we can see, some we can’t. Death came about as a result of the Fall. It was not part of God’s original desire for us. (A notion St. Paul teaches many places, but alas I have failed to memorize citations. You’ll just have to read him all again!)

I’m not dividing, just putting things in a categorical perspective. You claim that we just do not fully see the whole of creation. That doesn’t mean the way death works in the material world is just suddenly going to change. Are you saying that Original Sin changed the very fabric of reality? Somehow I feel that science would find that difficult to reconcile with.

I thought this article was kind of interesting:

What Dressing Up as a Scorpion Taught Me About Halloween

The basic take-away point is that by dressing up as the things we fear, we free ourselves from the power that scary things can have over us. I think that’s an interesting thing to consider. I often try to use humor as a means of not letting disturbing things get to me. This seems like a similar sort of thing.

Death is a scary, unpleasant, stark reality that no one can escape. 100 years from now, every single CAF member posting right now will be dead. What else can we do but laugh to keep from crying? :stuck_out_tongue:

I can see why some want to “take back” Halloween and “Christianize” some of the standard Halloween traditions (such as dressing up). As Catholics, sometimes I think we’ve grown so accustomed to being counter-cultural that it’s difficult for us not to instinctively react against things that seem “evil” in any way, shape, or form. I think that instinct can be good (and it’s probably better than the opposite instinct), but I don’t think it’s always necessary.

You know Joe, I really like the way you’ve been finding articles that express my views exactly.

This quote from the article you posted pretty much sums it up:

We often play with our fears in ways that can be beneficial to our souls by establishing a proper context for them—otherwise known as theater. This can take the form of scary movies, murder mysteries, ghost stories … any artistic enactment that, with our permission, presents to us something frightening within a clearly delineated milieu. Under such circumstances, we then have the power to grab hold of our fears, to manipulate them, even laugh at them. It diffuses fear’s psychological and emotional hold over us: We vent bottled-up anxiety and are led to a better understanding of both ourselves and of the things that frighten us. Throw in the visceral thrill that comes with facing our fears, and you have yourself an all-around good time. That’s why I love Halloween.

Read more:

Just to make a small addition though. I personally don’t just laugh at the things I feared as a kid. I also pretend to be something scary myself as a way tapping into the very power that gripped me. :cool:

Pardon my “butting” in here, but---------------------------
Define “nutcase.”

And have you ever heard of “charity?”

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