Sola Fide, the Rapture, and Human Suffering


#1

The doctrine of sola fide is based on the idea that nothing we do has any merit towards our own salvation since Christ merited everything for us on the Cross.

The doctrine of the rapture is the idea that Christ will spare all the “saved” people from the suffering of the tribulations.

Now, we Catholics do not hold either of these doctrines. Furthermore, we believe there is value to our suffering–we offer it up or unite it to the Cross for example.

For people who believe in sola fide and/or the rapture, is there any purpose or value to human suffering?


#2

Today, there are Christians in the Sudan and China who are dying for their beliefs. Yet some Christians in America strongly believe that God will spare **them **from any suffering. This always bothered me because I couldn’t understand why Western Christians’ well being would be more important to God then Christians in other parts of the world.


#3

[quote=deb1]Today, there are Christians in the Sudan and China who are dying for their beliefs. Yet some Christians in America strongly believe that God will spare **them **from any suffering. This always bothered me because I couldn’t understand why Western Christians’ well being would be more important to God then Christians in other parts of the world.
[/quote]

This is an excellent point. The fundamental question is why does God allow suffering. I know the Catholic answer, but I would like to see what the answer to this question is for people who believe in sola fide and the rapture.


#4

[quote=deb1]Today, there are Christians in the Sudan and China who are dying for their beliefs. Yet some Christians in America strongly believe that God will spare **them **from any suffering. This always bothered me because I couldn’t understand why Western Christians’ well being would be more important to God then Christians in other parts of the world.
[/quote]

An interesting article on Christian persecution and the differences between east and west.

catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0001.html

Sorry, don’t mean to hijack thread. I’ll zip it now:o


#5

[quote=iamrefreshed]An interesting article on Christian persecution and the differences between east and west.

catholiceducation.org/articles/persecution/pch0001.html

Sorry, don’t mean to hijack thread. I’ll zip it now:o
[/quote]

Yeah, I’ve seen that before. Sometimes it’s easy to think our religion is under attack here by the media and whatnot, but then you look over there and see what it’s really like to be under attack.:frowning:


#6

[quote=Genesis315]This is an excellent point. The fundamental question is why does God allow suffering. I know the Catholic answer, but I would like to see what the answer to this question is for people who believe in sola fide and the rapture.
[/quote]

God is not to blame for the problems that plague humankind. There are valid reasons to believe that God will soon undo that harm bought on the human family. God has abundant power and invites us to pour out our heart before him Psalm 62:8. Who, though, is to blame when someone gets sick or an animal dies? God did not create man to get old and die. When the first human pair, Adam and Eve, were in the Garden of Eden, God gave them the prospect of everlasting life right here on Earth. Yes, that is right, right here on earth as everlasting life that most people think is only achieveable in Heaven, somewhere other then earth? God made their life prospects conditional. Adam and Eve violated this prospect and allowed both good AND evil to enter out live as out forfathers as this is where out seed is from. They lied to God and that is why suffering is permitted, it is from the devil and not God. Jesus was put into this world by God and his seed was from the Holy Spirit so that those exercising faith in him would once again be given the opportunity to live in an everlasting life. God provides the means to redeem mankind from sin and yes, death. The price God paid for this redemption was his only Son Jesus. You know the verse in John, God loved the world so much he gave his only Son not to judge us but to save us from the inflictions from the devil. We can be certain that is God’s due time there will be no more suffering and that mankinds tears will be wiped out from there eye’s. Even if you or a family membery die, God has the power to raise us up from the dead and place us in a paradise where there is no satan influences (the enemey of God) and by exercising faith us and others might experience this and God showed us it can be done by raising Jesus and using Jesus to raise Lazerus from the dead as proof of what is to come. And yes, we are in times that are hard to deal with right now as Satan is running freely among earth until Jesus returns to wipe him out as we read in the Book . tommy


#7

[quote=tommy4321]God is not to blame for the problems that plague humankind. There are valid reasons to believe that God will soon undo that harm bought on the human family. God has abundant power and invites us to pour out our heart before him Psalm 62:8. Who, though, is to blame when someone gets sick or an animal dies? God did not create man to get old and die. When the first human pair, Adam and Eve, were in the Garden of Eden, God gave them the prospect of everlasting life right here on Earth. Yes, that is right, right here on earth as everlasting life that most people think is only achieveable in Heaven, somewhere other then earth? God made their life prospects conditional. Adam and Eve violated this prospect and allowed both good AND evil to enter out live as out forfathers as this is where out seed is from. They lied to God and that is why suffering is permitted, it is from the devil and not God. Jesus was put into this world by God and his seed was from the Holy Spirit so that those exercising faith in him would once again be given the opportunity to live in an everlasting life. God provides the means to redeem mankind from sin and yes, death. The price God paid for this redemption was his only Son Jesus. You know the verse in John, God loved the world so much he gave his only Son not to judge us but to save us from the inflictions from the devil. We can be certain that is God’s due time there will be no more suffering and that mankinds tears will be wiped out from there eye’s. Even if you or a family membery die, God has the power to raise us up from the dead and place us in a paradise where there is no satan influences (the enemey of God) and by exercising faith us and others might experience this and God showed us it can be done by raising Jesus and using Jesus to raise Lazerus from the dead as proof of what is to come. And yes, we are in times that are hard to deal with right now as Satan is running freely among earth until Jesus returns to wipe him out as we read in the Book . tommy
[/quote]

Nice post, Tommy4321, but that doesn’t really answer the question whether or not someone who believes in sola fide places any value in human suffering. It would be interesting to see what you’re opinion on this one particular topic is.

Thanks in advance.
Blessings.


What Muslims are taught in their mosques - unbiased
#8

[quote=Tonks40]Nice post, Tommy4321, but that doesn’t really answer the question whether or not someone who believes in sola fide places any value in human suffering. It would be interesting to see what you’re opinion on this one particular topic is.

Thanks in advance.
Blessings.
[/quote]

sorry, I am not familar with the Sola Fide but thought I would give it a whirl. take care, tommy


#9

[quote=Genesis315]The doctrine of sola fide is based on the idea that nothing we do has any merit towards our own salvation since Christ merited everything for us on the Cross.

The doctrine of the rapture is the idea that Christ will spare all the “saved” people from the suffering of the tribulations.

Now, we Catholics do not hold either of these doctrines. Furthermore, we believe there is value to our suffering–we offer it up or unite it to the Cross for example.

For people who believe in sola fide and/or the rapture, is there any purpose or value to human suffering?
[/quote]

Very few people realize that the idea of Sola Fide came about because one man, Martin Luther, didn’t feel like suffering as he was “supposed” to!

The only reason he even became a monk was because he promised the Virgin Mary he would at a young age out of fear over a thunderstorm. God has a specific calling for each of us, and to some are given certain gits and to others different gifts (see 1 Corinthians 7). Luther wasn’t meant to be a monk, so he didn’t have the gifts he needed to be a monk. Because of this, he spent 6 hours a day in confession, feeling very guilty about all sorts of things, most of them probably very minor (random thoughts, etc.). He felt extra guilty because he figured as a monk he shouldn’t be even close to having these problems. Finally he got sick and tired and decided God couldn’t possibly expect him to do the works he [thought] he was expected to do, so he devised the idea of Sola Fide. People think that he “discovered” the idea of faith alone when he realized he should only use the Bible. It’s actually the opposite. He decided he should only need faith first and used the Bible as a tool to justify his belief when nobody would listen to some random monk who disagreed with 1500 years of teaching and the Pope.


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