Sola Scriptura in action...Not


#1

Here are Luther, Zwingli and Oecolampadius, appealing to Sola Scriptura? No to Patristics

beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2007/12/overview-of-luthers-writings-about.html

  1. Confession Concerning Christ’s Supper

[1528] Available in LW 37. “This treatise was indeed his last published word on the controversy, until under provocation from Schwenkfeld he took up his pen once more in 1544, to indicate in his Brief Confession on the Holy Sacrament that he still maintained the same views. He paid no attention to the lengthy and bitter rebuttals by Oecolampadius and Zwingli, which, hastily written for the autumn fair and printed together in one volume, added nothing essentially new to the controversy: Concerning Dr. Martin Luther’s Book Entitled “Confession”: Two Answers, by John Oecolarnpadius and Ulrich Zwingli. Nor did he take notice of the host of lesser treatises that continued to appear against him”[LW 37: 157].

This is the foundation from which Sola Scriptura springs…


#2

Here’s some interesting background on that link posted above about Luther and Zwingli. The post is an overview of all of Luther’s writings against Zwingli, because: Roman Catholic apologist Steve Ray posted an out-of-context Luther quote, and he and a few other Roman Catholic apologists refused to accept correction.

I had to go through all of Luther’s writings against Zwingli to demonstrate to the gentlemen that indeed, Steve Ray misquoted Luther, and worse, never actually bothered to look up the context of the quote he was citing, which actually said something far different than what Steve said it did (when it was placed back in context). Here’s the saga of how it all went down.

JS


#3

TertiumQuid,
Thanks for the link. I did not read it all, but read enough to recognize what seems to be a familiar pattern (based on my very limited experience).
That is, the problem in apologetics (on both sides) of misquoting, poor sourcing and or not answering direct questions in a direct way.

This is not an accusation against you personally or your linked posting in any way…In fact you seem to display there the very frustration I often feel as I read or listen to apologetic discussions/debates.
It’s something that I have noted in the very few conversations and debates that I have been privy to…and it seem that both sides generally speaking are equally guilty.

Peace
James


#4

To solve this argument lets ignore apologetics and just listen to the Church. God gave us the Church to guide us for after His ascension. Everyone needs to get rid of their pride on both sides and come to the Communion Christ calls us all too. Christ created One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. There doesn’t need to be tens of thousands of protestant churches with varying beliefs. They are all wrong. Period. I’m not saying that people in these churches are condemned or anything of that sort. Simply that Christ gave us a very real physical Church. This is Scriptural as well as historically proven (the Church predates Scriptures as we all know). Christ preached unity. Tens of thousands of ever splintering, ever bickering churches all claiming they are correct and everyone else is wrong, is not union. Coming together in the Catholic Church that Christ left for us, taking part in the Sacraments He established to nourish us, and giving ourselves fully to Christ and Church and we can finally start living our faith. Christ calls us to Communion. He calls us to His Catholic Church. Anything outside of it is outside of what Christ taught. Period. Now there’s no more need to argue over this doctrine or that doctrine, Luther said this, Calvin said that. Everyone can do as Christ willed and come together peaceably. No more division. It’s up to all of us to restore Christendom:)


#5

[quote="SaintPatrick333, post:4, topic:290053"]
To solve this argument lets ignore apologetics and just listen to the Church. God gave us the Church to guide us for after His ascension.

[/quote]

Agree. We also need to, "tell it to the Church", and participate in the Church so that understanding is maintained. We need to remember that the term used in the NT Greek, ekklesia refers to a community not an oligarchy and while we certainly rely on the highly learned members of the magisterium and the Pope himself, we must likewise take responsibility ourselves.

Everyone needs to get rid of their pride on both sides and come to the Communion Christ calls us all too.

Amen to this...

Christ created One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. There doesn't need to be tens of thousands of protestant churches with varying beliefs.

Some variance is not a bad thing - witness the various forms of devotion and spirituality even within the Latin Rite Church - and then there are the Eastern Catholic Rites...

They are all wrong. Period.

This is the sort of comment that I spoke of above that is decidedly not helpful. Such statements come off as harsh condemnations and only cause others to "dig in their heels".

The Catechism speaks to the matter in a manner far more charitable - HERE

I'm not saying that people in these churches are condemned or anything of that sort. Simply that Christ gave us a very real physical Church. This is Scriptural as well as historically proven (the Church predates Scriptures as we all know).

Agreed. The Catholic (and EO) Churches are the most biblical in their structure and outlook.

Christ preached unity.

Yes, and while multiple references and passages can be found expressing this desire for unity and in support of the Catholic/EO structural model, few or none can be found to support the "protestant" model.

Tens of thousands of ever splintering, ever bickering churches all claiming they are correct and everyone else is wrong, is not union.

While this statement is correct in it's essentials regarding the lack of doctrinal unity among the various denominations, there again becomes the problem of using a term like "ever bickering". Yes there are some that hold the "we are right and everyone else wrong", but from my experience most seem quite accepting and tolerant of their Christian brothers.

Coming together in the Catholic Church that Christ left for us, taking part in the Sacraments He established to nourish us, and giving ourselves fully to Christ and Church and we can finally start living our faith. Christ calls us to Communion.
He calls us to His Catholic Church. Anything outside of it is outside of what Christ taught. Period. Now there's no more need to argue over this doctrine or that doctrine, Luther said this, Calvin said that. Everyone can do as Christ willed and come together peaceably. No more division. It's up to all of us to restore Christendom:)

Yes, Christ calls us to communion. And that communion must be grounded in Faith and expressed in Love. As such, we must draw each other into communion and not "push" each other around with haughty words and misquotations and other prideful and disingenuous methods.

Peace
James


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.