Sola Scriptura is Absolutely biblical

Hello Friends,

“It is written”…

(15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(16) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:15-17

(18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
(19) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:18-21

Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

You have the freedom of conscience.
“I receive not honor from men.” John 5:41

If, I repeat if you support freedom of conscience and that of choice, allow the following link to remain, and people to look for themselves. If Catholicism is truth then allow it to be compared.

amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-Media-RtR-Video.html

“Here I stand I can do no other.” Martin Luther

If you do not believe in Sola Scriptura, the following statement from New York Catechism is simple to swallow.

“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of the Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the found of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism

God help us when a man places himself above the " Holy One of Israel," Jesus Christ alone is salvation found in.

Righteousness by faith

Galatians 5:5-6
(5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
(6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

[Emphasis of bold added, to make clear Jesus Christ alone is salvation in and no other]

amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-Media-RtR-Video.html

Search for yourselves, Jesus Christ wants so much to have a personal relationship with you.

According to your beliefs…Jesus does not care about us having a personal relationship with Him, He just wants us to say “I believe Jesus died for me, Jesus I am sorry for making you die for me.” Does not sound like much of a relationship to me.

Moving on:

Where does the Bible say it is the ONLY authority. I agree 100% with the verses you quoted saying it is useful, but it never claims to be the ONLY useful thing.

I sometimes think people believe that all that is mentioned about Jesus in the Bible is all that happened to Him and all He ever said. Obviously you know this to not be true because you apparently know the Bible and know that the Bible tells us that not everything Jesus taught or did could be contained in all the books of the world.

So…in order for me to believe Sola Scriptura…I need to know where the Bible tells us that it is the ONLY thing we should use. That I should limit my Christianity to that of the pages of this Book.

Thanks!
Peace

On this we can agree… and to this end He is leading me into the Church so I can have a relationship based on truth.

:amen:

To BibleOnly,
Welcome to CAF!
You make my heart bleed, my friend.
Is that what you found after reading the bible or BEFORE reading the bible?

Yeah I did not realize it was the first post.

A warm welcome from me too!

BibleOnly,
Hello Friends,

Hello, and welcome to CAF.

“It is written”…

(15) And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(16) All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Timothy 3:15-17

There is nothing wrong with consulting Scripture to prove doctrine, to correct someone in error, to teach. We agree on that. However, the Bible is not the one and only source of teaching and doctrine. Until the Bible was codified (put together) oral tradition was relied upon. Nowhere in those verses does it say that the Bible is the one and final source for teaching. It is profitable just not the whole enchilada. Nowhere in the Bible (where does it mention a table of contents for the Bible by the way) does it mention that Bible is the only thing needed for faith.

(18) And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
(19) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
(20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.
(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:18-21

So who has the authority to interprete prophecy?

Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

What Scriptures? At the time of the writing of the Gospel of John, the only Scriptures are what is now the Old Testament. The New Testament isn’t codified by the Catholic Church until the end of the Fourth Century. The Catholic Church came first, then the Bible. The Catholic Church put together the Bible.

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

You have the freedom of conscience.
“I receive not honor from men.” John 5:41

We have free will, yes, and that is God given. We can reject God ourselves. He won’t force Himself on us.

If, I repeat if you support freedom of conscience and that of choice, allow the following link to remain, and people to look for themselves. If Catholicism is truth then allow it to be compared.

amazingdiscoveries.org/AD-Media-RtR-Video.html

Catholicism is the fullness of truth. All Christians have some of the truth but Catholicism/Orthodox have the fullness of truth.

“Here I stand I can do no other.” Martin Luther

No idea why Luther is quoted, but hey, you made the post.

If you do not believe in Sola Scriptura, the following statement from New York Catechism is simple to swallow.

“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of the Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the found of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism

A catechism is not a binding source. It is a source for the explanation of beliefs. Though properly understand, there is nothing wrong with that statement since the Pope is the Vicar of Christ on Earth. Sola Scriptura has been demonstrated to Not hold water many times on this forum alone. Just do a search and see the various threads on it. Read them.

God help us when a man places himself above the " Holy One of Israel," Jesus Christ alone is salvation found in.

Salvation is in Jesus. We agree on that point.

Righteousness by faith

Galatians 5:5-6
(5) For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
(6) For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:8-10

[Emphasis of bold added, to make clear Jesus Christ alone is salvation in and no other]

Paul is talking about works of the law. We are saved by God’s grace through faith which are both gifts from God. The works we do are not to save us but have been set aside for us by God. If you love your wife, do you not do things to please her, help her, to show you love her? This is how works work. Works mean nothing and yet Jesus mentions in the Sermon on the Mount that feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, etc. is important. We do works not to gain salvation (the heresy of Pelagianism) but rather out of love for God and His gift of salvation to us.

Search for yourselves, Jesus Christ wants so much to have a personal relationship with you.

Can’t disagree with this either. Catholics have that relationship through the Eucharist. We have the wonderous opportunity to receive His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity at Mass.

What is the Pillar and Foundation of the truth for any Christian?

For the threadstarter, why did Christ found his Church if the Bible is enough?

Not one of these says anything about Bible alone. They talk about the value of Scripture and its reliability- truths that Catholicism strongly affirms. There is nothing in any of these verses that says people should rely on Scripture alone. The word “alone” is not in there- nor is anything resembling it.

We believe that too. We do not believe the Pope sets himself above Christ. He is Christ’s servant (a servant given great authority and responsibility), not his master.

This does not contradict the necessity of works as well as faith for salvation. It never says “faith alone.” Note that this Scripture is particularly targeting the Hebrew unscriptural “works alone” tradition. Otherwise, as Luther himself believed, this and the Book of James are in conflict. Luther was convinced that the Book of James and the writings of Paul contradicted each other because he misunderstood the fact that Paul’s emphasis on faith was a contradiction of the legalistic application of the Law alone for salvation, not a rejection of the Catholic belief (as stated in James and elsewhere) that faith and works cooperate in our justification.

In the first line you quoted, Paul deliberately contrasts faith with an attitude that believes salvation can be merited purely by human effort. He is not contrasting it with a faith + works position. In fact, he says we are created “unto good works . . . that we should walk in them,” in the very passage you quoted, which shows how faith and works are entwined.

You’re also forgetting Jesus’ enormous emphasis on “follow me.” “Follow” is the part we Catholics are talking about when we talk about works. It’s not just “believe in me.” We have to also follow. The following is the works. Even the demons believe Jesus is Lord. That alone does not bring salvation. The demons believe Jesus is Lord but they don’t follow Him. True Christians do, living lives united with Him from their very inception, in the instant they are born again in the waters of baptism.

Jesus addressed His disciples with these words, “Follow me.” Because they followed Him, they were saved, for it requires belief to follow and also action. The two are combined. Whenever a Christian believes in Jesus and follows Him, that person is walking toward salvation.

You don’t understand Catholicism. We believe Christ alone is our salvation, and we worship no other.

Something else you need to know about Catholicism- many of us do have personal relationships with Jesus. We also have the Eucharist, which is Jesus Himself, the very heart of our unity in God. It is also the true unity between believers, according to St. Paul in the Epistles to the Corinthians. Yet within Protestants, many don’t even partake of Communion, and the ones that do often have very different ideas about what it means.

Remember also the words of St. Paul, “I do not want there to be any divisions among you.” We should be one Church with one doctrine. That is what Christ wanted us to be. He said to the Father, “I want them to be one as you and I are one.” That unity contains no error, no division, no “denominations.” It is the complete unity of faith to infallible authority, unity in the one loaf, Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 10:16-17).

Extremely valid question. However, I think our question, or observation, would be that it never says the church should have more power over it either. And it doesn’t say that the pope is the end-all when it comes to speaking on faith and morals. That is the perception we tend to have as protestants, that more emphasis is on the pope and his words and not the words of Christ. I don’t think any honest protestant would negate the fact that the words of the church are useful. If they did they would be wrong. We just don’t think the church is quite on the same plane as the Bible, and we don’t think the words of the pope are just as important either. That’s a knock or a put down on anyone. It just tends to be our perceptions and beliefs.

And your perception that our faith is just a simple “I believe” and then move on is not on target at all. We believe that out of our profession of faith we do have, and we do walk in a relationship with Christ. To think or say otherwise is not fair. True, some protestants are protestants in name only, but the same can be said of catholics as well. However, that is not a lumping of all prots and caths into one big 'ole category. It’s just the truth.

Since the only scriptures these people had were the books of the Old Testament, I guess we should ignore the entire New Testament.

When you consider the New Testament, Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, John, the author of Hebrews, etc quoted the Old Testament as being authorative. :slight_smile: . Jesus and the Apostles had such a high view of the Old Testament as being the written Word of God. The New Testament is full of quotes from the Old Testament.

When oral tradition was considered divine revelation, it was written as Scripture. :shrug: For the Roman Catholic Christian, how does the Catholic Church determine when something is only tradition, and when something become Sacred Tradition? For example, is Mary the co-reedemer or not according to Sacred Tradition?

Deuteronomy 8:3

And he humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that he might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

The Temptation of Jesus - Matthew

4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” 4 But he answered, “It is written,

“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,’

and

“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”

7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,

“‘You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’”

11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

How do you know what scriptures are inspired?

Apart from a attack on Catholicism, this has no substance to support the principle of Sola Scriptura.

The New Testament references to Scripture by Timothy, John and Peter were NOT part of Scripture at the time that they were the words of the authors.

They were thus not part of Scripture, but part of Catholic Tradition which were eventually included as written Scripture in the Books of the New Testament.

The New Testament is in reality part of Catholic Tradition.

It is inspired by the Holy Spirit.

And it is the New Testament that the protestants accept as inspired.

Please join us on this particular thread and seek to find what God actually reveals in the Scriptures. :slight_smile: Do you think your personal beliefs can stand the test in light of Scripture revelation?

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=273731&page=8

Ask, and It Will Be Given

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! - Mat 7

We don’t believe the Church has more power or authority than the Scripture, in the same way we don’t believe the Spirit has more power than Jesus. We believe God gave us a type of the Trinity in the authorities he instituted (all of which can be backed in Scripture and found in the earliest days of the Church):

God the Father is represented by Sacred Tradition, God the Son is represented by the Word of God that is begotten from Sacred Tradition, and God the Spirit is represented by the Church, which interprets and enforces the other two. They are all one truth, one united voice, none of them ruling over the others but all complementing and reinforcing the others.

The belief that the Church should have the authority to interpret Scripture can be found in several Biblical references, as well as in references from the Early Church Fathers such as Ignatius, who said that Christians should not swerve in any way from the teaching of the bishops (because they truthfully taught the teachings of Christ). In the Scripture, this kind of teaching can be found in (looks up a few passages really quickly- not a full collection, just a spur of the moment one):

1 Timothy 1:2, 3 says, “To Timothy, my loyal child in the faith . . . I urge you, as I did when I was on my way to Macedonia, to remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach any different doctrine.” The passage suggests Timothy’s faith is taught by Paul, and verse 3 says that no doctrine different from that of Paul is to be taught.

Titus 1:15 says, “Declare these things [of the faith]; exort and reprove with all authority.”

Galations 1:9 says, “As we have said before, so now I repeat, if anyone proclaims to you a gospel contrary to what you received, let that one be accursed!”

This again asserts the authority of the bishops in matters of doctrine. There are many other passages I can think of off the top of my head- I just don’t have time right now to bring them up.

There also is a good deal of Biblical evidence, both from the Old Testament (foreshadowing) and from the New Testament that supports the role of the Papacy. Also that’s in the Early Church Fathers . . . I can’t get into it right now :(.

Please help me understand Marian dogma and non-dogma in regards to Sacred Tradition. The truth of Mary is just that…it is truth before the Magestrium declares a doctrine truth as being truth or not truth. Since I don’t think Mary is considered co-reedemer as Sacred Tradition, does that mean the silence of Rome declaring it as dogma mean that Mary is not a co-reedemer with Christ? What I’m trying to say, it seems the Magestrium is always declaring new Sacred Tradition. Truth is truth regardless of what the magestrium declares as truth or not. The Epistles in the New Testament and the four gospel accounts were God-breathed revelation before the Catholic Church defined them to be part of the canon, correct?

Yes, Scripture was Scripture from the time ink met writing surface.
Yet, none of the Gospels self-identify as Scripture; in fact, only John’s Revelation self-identifies as inspired by God.
In truth, we must turn to an extra-Biblical source to determine which writings, from all the contenders, are the ones God inspired.

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