I wanted to post this in a thred that just closed. And these was some concerns I had with Sola Scripture
I know im coming at this alittle late but this is important
You say sola scripture does not mean that you dont take into acount the early church fathers
But as long as it does not contradict scripture of course
You do have a bit of a delima here though
We have given proof that the chair of Peter exist in Rome from the early church fathers as quoted here
The problem you run into JTBT is that this in no way contradicts scripture
if you are going to hold to scripture alone but that we can also hold to the traditions of the early church fathers then why not believe this?
It does not contradict the bible
You have a problem with this but lets do this from sola scripture (your) definition
It does not contradic the bible.
the bible does not say she did not
we can apeal to early Church fathers as you say
what did they say?
“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one…Had she been martyred according to what is written: ‘Thine own soul a sword shall pierce’, then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).
“[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones…” Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).
So I dont think you really hold to the definition you claim to be holding to
If i am mistaken please let me know
The Church did exist before the bible so to say it cant is just non sense
I asked this question and never got a response from a non-Catholic
Originally Posted by trrocks03
Let me restate my original question, and fellow Catholics, if this doesn’t make sense to you either, let me know.
Was the bible the deciding factor in the church’s survival when it was being compiled? If they did not compile a bible, would the Church have ceased to exist?
Originally Posted by jdevoir
The CHURCH is the Pillar and Foundation of TRUTH…so says scripture…so it sounds like the Church would not have ceased to exist…oh yeah and Jesus also said…the gates of hell would not prevail against the CHURCH
Originally Posted by RobHom
Personally, I believe that the Catholic Church’s Councils to determine the Canon of the Bible contributed greatly to the survival of the Church. It would have survived even without the Canon…because Christ Himself deemed it so. However, I further believe that had not the Canon been established…there would be Bibles being published that would be nothing at all like our Bible and apostasy and heresy would be so rampant as to make what occurs today to seem to be “child’s play”.
That is my humble opinion…
Originally Posted by RobHom
Good point! The Holy Spirit inspired those Catholics to compile the Canon of the Bible…and so the Catholic Church would not fail, just as it has not, and will not… I’m actually happy to see that you do agree with the Scriptures on at least “one” count…that being where Christ Himself gave Peter his commission and told him that the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church.
These are excellent answers. If you consider the fact that the ECF chose to compile a bible, and then were inspired by the Holy Spirit when doing so, then that is how we got the bible we have today. However, if the ECF had decided that a better way of dispercing the Word was through engravings on rocks, or engravings on Church pillars (ironic), or simply word of mouth, THE CHURCH STILL WOULD PREVAIL. This is because Jesus said it will never fall.
Why is this important? Because with this simple explaination, sola scriptura is completely irrelevent. Scripture is NOT what defines the Church. The Church defines Scripture. Indeed, both are very important to the Christian, but Scripture does not trump the source it came from!