SOLITARY SIN POLL-- always a mortal sin?


#1

So, what say ye? Is the act of solitary stimulation always a mortal sin? :slight_smile:


#2

What happened to this thread? I was PMing a poster…Forgiven…and cannot. All the posts are gone, and Forgiven is no longer listed as a member…What happened?


#3

Forgiven has been banned, and I think the thread was deleted by the moderators. The conversation got way-way-way out of hand and entirely too graphic for the forum.

I hope this doesn’t sound condescending, but please be careful with this subject-I think it’s caused a lot of trouble in the past. I also think it’s probably be discussed enough for a while, and should be put to rest for a time. Just my opinion.

Scout :wave:


#4

**Thanks for the information…I agree that the thread had gotten a little too graphic. **

My question is this…How is it possible for one to confess something one does not think is a sin ( because it is required), so that one can recieve communion, knowing that he/she intends to continue committing the sin?


#5

[quote=WhiteDove]So, what say ye? Is masturbation always a mortal sin? :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Isn’t the criteria the same as with any other mortal sin? Grave matter, full knowledge, etc.


#6

[quote=Socrates]Isn’t the criteria the same as with any other mortal sin? Grave matter, full knowledge, etc.
[/quote]

Yes, and she may have been really asking one of two questions - “Is it grave matter?” (yes, according to the CCC) or “Can consent be diminished by factors such as habit, immaturity, etc.?” (in my opinion, possibly).

Betsy


#7

:hmmm: Hmmmm, something is different here…

So, someone ruined my poll, eh??? Come on youse guys, keep it clean! I try and make a discreetly worded title for an embarrassing subject, and some clod has to go and get overly descriptive!!

All I can say is, CUT IT OUT!!! Have you no shame???


#8

[quote=baltobetsy]Yes, and she may have been really asking one of two questions - “Is it grave matter?” (yes, according to the CCC) or “Can consent be diminished by factors such as habit, immaturity, etc.?” (in my opinion, possibly).

Betsy
[/quote]

From some things I’ve read, it can become somewhat of a chemical addiction…just that the chemicals are internally produced endorphins rather than ones produced by the introduction of an external drug. I can’t recall the exact source right now, but it was an article that talked about pornography addiction and it seemed to be pretty written from a pretty orthodox Catholic perspective.

So I agree with you that it’s possible that consent can be diminished just like consent might be diminished for an alcoholic and the sin of drunkenness. I’m not entirely clear what diminished consent really means in a practical sense though.


#9

I believe that diminished capacity means that you don’t really realize what you’re doing, or that what you’re doing is wrong (like in the case of a young child or a person who is developmentally challenged). Or maybe it’s the state that you know what you’re doing is wrong, but you’re so addicted to whatever it is that you absolutely cannot help yourself no matter how hard you try to keep from doing the thing you know is wrong (like an alcoholic or heroine addict, or even someone addicted to pornography).

However, I do not believe that diminished capacity is someone saying, “Yes, I know the Church’s teaching on this and I know that this is a mortal sin, but I’m going to do it anyway…and I’ll go to Confession because I have to, but I don’t really believe I need forgiveness”. This is not diminished capacity, this is REBELLION!
Someone who purposely committs a mortal sin without the slightest care, and intends on committing the sin again even after Confession, is just flat out in a state of rebellion against Christ and His Church.

Now it’s just my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I believe someone who confesses without truly being sorry and intends on doing it again, makes a false confession and I believe it’s absolutely worthless. Someone who does that should not be receiving Holy Communion because they are not in a state of grace.

This is all just my opinion of course, for whatever it’s worth.

Scout :tiphat:


#10

Good post, Scout. Thanks.

It seems like an addiction can put one in a state where one repeats a sin even though there is true remorse afterward each time, rather than repeating a sin out of rebellion and simply presuming on confession to fix things.

I guess an addiction is sort of like a dog knocking over the trash…he knows he’s not supposed to and when confronted with it he assumes a very submissive posture, but the next time something in the trash smells interesting he does it again. The dog doesn’t have free will, but he also doesn’t have the ability to lie…his “repentance” upon his master’s return is always genuine because it can’t really be anything but.

Not a completely accurate analog, but I suppose my point is that an addiction is an impairment to free will. Impairing free will makes us respond more like animals who lack it entirely.


#11

Please do not use the “m” word when asking this question…please remember that there are youngsters who come on here and we dont need them inquiring about this in detail and getting us back where we were before…Thank you and God bless…
Will


#12

Here’s a timeless question. Something many people struggle with. I think it’s probably not usually a mortal sin due to the fact that it seems pretty common, and people are so tempted.


#13

A lot of folks don’t go to mass every Sunday but that too is still a serious sin. It is a serious sin most of the time. It fits the 3 criteria for a mortal sin. And NO, most people doing it does not make it okay or a lesser sin.

The estimates are 90% of young males and 10 to 20% of young females. That’s a huge number BUT folks do overcome it. If it were considered a minor sin, folks would not make the effort needed to overcome. Frequent confession, prayers, other diversions and maturity all help.

We are sexual creatures, but we have the intellect and determination needed to conquer our baser instincts.


#14

[quote=WhiteDove]So, what say ye? Is the act of solitary stimulation always a mortal sin? :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I was quite an expert in this area as I grew up, unfortunately.

The answer is, “No, it is not always a mortal sin.” It depends on how clear the perverse thinking of the sinner is.


#15

no…

ccc states…

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.


#16

[quote=Scout]I believe that diminished capacity means that you don’t really realize what you’re doing, or that what you’re doing is wrong (like in the case of a young child or a person who is developmentally challenged). Or maybe it’s the state that you know what you’re doing is wrong, but you’re so addicted to whatever it is that you absolutely cannot help yourself no matter how hard you try to keep from doing the thing you know is wrong (like an alcoholic or heroine addict, or even someone addicted to pornography).

However, I do not believe that diminished capacity is someone saying, “Yes, I know the Church’s teaching on this and I know that this is a mortal sin, but I’m going to do it anyway…and I’ll go to Confession because I have to, but I don’t really believe I need forgiveness”. This is not diminished capacity, this is REBELLION!
Someone who purposely committs a mortal sin without the slightest care, and intends on committing the sin again even after Confession, is just flat out in a state of rebellion against Christ and His Church.

Now it’s just my opinion, and I could be wrong, but I believe someone who confesses without truly being sorry and intends on doing it again, makes a false confession and I believe it’s absolutely worthless. Someone who does that should not be receiving Holy Communion because they are not in a state of grace.

This is all just my opinion of course, for whatever it’s worth.

Scout :tiphat:
[/quote]

Absolutely right but if a person knows that masturbation is a sin that he or she is continually struggling with, then said person would be deluding themselves to think that it will suddenly go away because they are sorry and have confessed it. Their intent may be to never do it again, but they have to realize that the sturggle will probably still continue, and the possiblity of falling into the sin again is still very high.


#17

[quote=CD4]**Thanks for the information…I agree that the thread had gotten a little too graphic. **

My question is this…How is it possible for one to confess something one does not think is a sin ( because it is required), so that one can recieve communion, knowing that he/she intends to continue committing the sin?
[/quote]

Well, I struggle with similar feelings about some other sins. (Don’t want to get into detail) He’re how I react. Even though I think something shouldn’t be a sin, according to the Church, it is a sin. Therefore, I confess and even though I don’t feel guilt I do acknowlegde that I am breaking a rule set by the Church, and commiting a sin and must try not to do it again. You can talk with the preist about why the Church says it’s a sin and that might also help.


#18

[quote=Jabronie]Well, I struggle with similar feelings about some other sins. (Don’t want to get into detail) He’re how I react. Even though I think something shouldn’t be a sin, according to the Church, it is a sin. Therefore, I confess and even though I don’t feel guilt I do acknowlegde that I am breaking a rule set by the Church, and commiting a sin and must try not to do it again. You can talk with the preist about why the Church says it’s a sin and that might also help.
[/quote]

You need to stop thinking what the church says is a sin is not a sin. As long as you don’t agree with the church, you are not living in union with it. We must give mental assent to everything that the church teaches, otherwise we flirt with heterodoxy.


#19

What if you confess, hope to get over it, but are pretty sure that you won’t, if it’s deeply ingrained? As I’ve stated elsewhere, I come from a Protestant background where it’s not even regarded as a sin. I’ve hard to work myself into a state of feeling bad for it.

There seems a part of me that is determined to get over it, but another that says, “Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. You enjoy it too much and you’ll be back.”

And falling and failing gives feelings both of sadness in the failure, but also the sort of perverted enjoyment akin to that of playing hooky from school–part of the thrill is knowing it’s wrong. My sinful nature tells me that once I’m in a state of mortal sin I might as well commit a few more now that I’ve screwed up, that I can straighten things out in the confessional.It’s chain-sinning, like the notion of chain-smoking, where you light one cigarette off the butt of the last one.


#20

In case there are any habitual masturbators here, reading this thread, looking for a way out – the way out is simple.

Stop all sexual looking. ALL of it. No on-line porn. No newspaper bikini ads. No Victoria Secret catalog. No risque cable TV.

Sexual looking is the control point, and therefore the point where you are REALLY committing the sin.

You will find, if you cut out sexual looking entirely, that the whole cycle will break down in a few weeks, and in a few weeks you’ll be a normal person again, and not some pig who has to give a really embarrassing answer when God asks, “Tell me – what did YOU do with the time I gave you on Earth? How did you make My world a better place, friend?”


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