Some advice on my catholic journey


#1

Hi…:slight_smile:

So I started of in life occaisonally attending a protestant church, when I was a teenager i started going downhill with really bad depression. I had a friend who was jehovahs witness and I was like woah… maybe god does care about me. After a year or so I decided it wasn’t for me it just wasn’t right.
Spent the next few years of my life severly depressed drinking and doing some drugs just recreationally but I usually just drank to make myself feel better.
Then I met my fiance :), he totally put me on the straight and narrow, I don’t drink anymore haven’t done drugs in a year and a half! I am at university getting a degree and sorting my life out and marrying the man of my dreams next year (and only am 22!)
I started working with this girl who is christian, and I thought to myself “wow I miss god” I miss that feeling of belonging. I miss the happiness, my life is almost perfect… this is whats missing.
I went to a new-age/ born again christian church with the girl from my work and It felt god to hear the word of god, but it wasn’t right? so I started researching what demonination would suit me… got some catholic pamphlets and my heart started to go crazy and happy and almost like that feeling of total love. Of being in love with something…

I have one problem, my fiance is athiest. we have had fights about me becoming a christian. He doesn’t get it. He says “someone so educated who is doing a science degree like you, how can you believe in religion”. I have made contact with a local parish and am going to start going… how do I tell him or have a conversation with him? he thinks it will “brain wash” me. I am so torn but I need to go to church, I need this to be whole.

please help me, pray for me. give me some advice anything would be helpfull


#2

Hi Rachel,
Welcome . I understand your problem and don’t think I can address it adequately in a single post . You say you are majoring in science , how about your fiance ? How familiar are you with Antony Flew ? Antony Flew was arguably the most prominent atheist in the last half of the 20th century , and I believe he was a physicist . Flew renounced atheism several years before his death and became a deist ( not bad progress considering where he started ) . Flew commented that he and other scientists rarely , if ever considered the philosophical approach to the question of God . It wasn’t until Flew applied philosophy to the question of God that he began to have a more open perspective .
If your fiance is also a scientist , ask him how science , which examines the physical world ( the realm of matter ) can measure a purely spiritual being ? God is not matter , He is not physical , so how can science with it’s appropriate metrics quantify God ? Ask him if science , with it’s metrics , isn’t out of it’s depth when it tries to measure God ?
History is replete with great scientists who are/were Catholic . Gregor Mendel ( father of genetics ) , Copernicus ( founder of the heliocentric theory) , Pasteur, Blaise Pascal , Seismology is called the Jesuit science ( it’s most prestigous award is named after a Jesuit ) , there are 30 craters on the surface of the moon named after Jesuits . I don’t have enough space to name them all .
Obviously he can’t disprove the existence of God , so why should you have to prove His existence ? Science proposes theories based only on “indirect” evidence all the time , like the theory of Black Holes back in the 1930’s .We can offer indirect evidence for the existence of God . You also might want to have him read John Paul ll’s Fides et Ratio .
It’s late and I have to get some rest , so I’ll end here . Good luck ! I’ll think on this .


#3

Thanks for your reply,

I am mejouring in geology and anthropological science. For me god and science are completely seperate. I as a scientist can’t deny the existance of god, studying science has proved so much but there is still so much in my mind it can’t. My speciality is minerals and rocks… they are somewhat my “niche”. I am absoloutly hopeless at physics, but I do recognise what your saying I have done some seismology within my geology major.
My fiance did some science, biology and geology and law but never finished he is now a mechanic supporting me while I am in university. We argue about many different aspects, darwins theory which i don’t completely agree with, human beings are too incredible to come from nothing. we don’t understand the human body completely or process’s as time progress’s theorys a revolted and new one’s proposed. But he doesn’t see it in this way…
It’s hard to explain but as I said for me science and god are in two different minds, when I study science i seperate it and learn it as what it is. I can’t deny my yearning for god though. So how do I go about explaining I need god?
thanks for your reply again


#4

I may be missing something here but what is his problem? If he does not believe in God thats his business but why should he have a problem with you believing. After all what difference does it make in his thinking if you waste your energy praying to something he thinks isn’t there. Would he be so bothered if you said you suddenly had a great desire to study Astromony and that investigating the wonders of the Universe made you happy. His responce like most loving partners would be go ahead whatever rocks your boat :thumbsup: So what is his problem with taking the same approach to your quest for religion. I think its great that he helped you turn your life around from one type of enslavement but if its just to put you in a different type of dependance and enslavement what has he done for you. Its your life and your choice what you believe.

As far as inteligence goes Athiesm is a faith also as anyone with some thoughts on the truth of realty will have to conceed that we have to believe in one of the following

  1. something always existed that didn’t get created

or

  1. something was created out of nothing

he chooses to believe with no logical proof that either of the above things are true and a belief with no logical proof is a faith

Yoy choose to believe in the first statement and call that God.

I would advise you not to get drawn into these discussions at all but continue to explore and learn about faith and practice your faith. If he does love you he will allow it with good grace. Don’t feel you have to sort his soul out; you sort your own. Have you encountered the Rosary ? I would recommend this as a great spiritual practice and you can pray for the Holy Spirit to guide and help you in this matter ; you can also pray for the Holy Spirit to help your partner :smiley:

You are a big girl now and you must learn to stand on your own two feet; you don’t have to fight over this at all so don’t. :smiley:

Jeremiah 15:15 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

O Lord, thou knowest, remember me, and visit me, and defend me from them that persecute me, do not defend me in thy patience: know that for thy sake I have sufferred reproach.


#5

Rachel; sounds like the Holy Spirit is calling you home. I agree with thirdec completely, Also you know there were many scientist that were cathloic. As a matter of fact some of your best scientist where religious if not catholic were of another denomination.
any how may God bless you, and I'll be praying for you and your boyfriend.

jesus g


#6

[quote="Rachelcloud, post:3, topic:238048"]
Thanks for your reply,

I am mejouring in geology and anthropological science. For me god and science are completely seperate. I as a scientist can't deny the existance of god, studying science has proved so much but there is still so much in my mind it can't. My speciality is minerals and rocks... they are somewhat my "niche". I am absoloutly hopeless at physics, but I do recognise what your saying I have done some seismology within my geology major.
My fiance did some science, biology and geology and law but never finished he is now a mechanic supporting me while I am in university. We argue about many different aspects, darwins theory which i don't completely agree with, human beings are too incredible to come from nothing. we don't understand the human body completely or process's as time progress's theorys a revolted and new one's proposed. But he doesn't see it in this way...
It's hard to explain but as I said for me science and god are in two different minds, when I study science i seperate it and learn it as what it is. I can't deny my yearning for god though. So how do I go about explaining I need god?
thanks for your reply again

[/quote]

Rachel, greetings from a fellow scientist who's Catholic. :tiphat: My foundations are in chemistry and biology and although I'm not an expert on minerals and rocks, I'm fascinated by them and learned a bit about them as a part of my chemistry curriculum.

Don't believe for a moment that science has disproven the existence of God. Your fiancee needs to educate himself and lay aside his stereotypes and prejudice against people who believe in God.

Here's a little story for you - quoted from:

ncregister.com/blog/6-of-the-most-unexpected-converts/

6 of the Most Unexpected Converts
by Matthew Archbold

.....

*Alexis Carrel *- Carrel was an avowed atheist who received the Nobel Prize in 1912, for his work in vascular anastomosis. (I don’t know what it is either.)

Carrel had a secret, however. He’d witnessed a miracle in Lourdes which took place on May 28, 1902 when he met Marie Bailly, a young woman dying of tuberculosis on her way to Lourdes. So far gone she was that in March 1902 doctors refused to operate on her.

On May 25, 1902, she was smuggled onto a train that carried sick people to Lourdes. She was smuggled because such trains were forbidden to carry dying people. At two o’clock the next morning it was clear she was dying. Carrel was called. He gave her morphine and stayed with her, diagnosing her with a fatal case of tuberculous peritonitis.

On May 27 she insisted on being carried to the Grotto, although the doctors were afraid that she would die on the way there. On arriving, some water from the baths was poured on her diseased abdomen. Amazingly, Carrel watched as her enormously distended and very hard abdomen began to flatten. In the evening she sat up in her bed and had dinner.

Early the next morning she got up on her own and was already dressed when Carrel saw her again. She was healed.

Carrel asked her what she would do with her life now. She told him she would join the Sisters of Charity to spend her life caring for the sick. And she did.

The scientist in Carrel refused to accept the possibility of a miracle for years. He was a eugenics theorist with no use for God. In 1935, Carrel published a best-selling book titled L’Homme, cet inconnu (Man, This Unknown) which advocated that mankind could better itself with enforced eugenics.

For many years, Carrel tried to ascribe Marie’s healing to “psychic forces” and other lame explanations. But Carrel couldn’t shake what he saw and returned to Lourdes again and again because of his inability to explain fully what he’d seen. On his third trip to Lourdes, in 1910, Carrel saw an 18 month old child regain his ability to see.

Nearing the end of his life, Carrel finally accepted what he’d seen and received the sacraments of the Church and died reconciled to God. Oddly enough science seemed to stop hailing him as a genius around the same time.

note: vascular anastomosis is the procedure of joining two blood vessels, e.g. during surgery


#7

Rachel,

Have you had many conversations with faithful Christian and Catholic Chrisitian men concerning marriage? It might be an interesting experiment to find out their points of view on relationships and marriage.


#8

Also, for many scientists, discovering the laws that govern the created universe, and contemplating the order, the complexity, and beauty of the universe (of the natural world) is an exercise that’s just one step below worshipping God. When we look at Creation, we are filled with awe for the Creator.

I mean, when we see that order, when we contemplate the immense intelligence that created these natural laws governing physics and chemistry, we are filled with awe. We look at the cell, whether a bacterium cell, a human cell, or even something “simple” as a virus, and we see complex design. The cell is a miniature-sized machine, more complex than a race car or the space shuttle. And even a single protein molecule within the cell, one of tens of thousands of protein molecules, is like an extremely elaborate part, interconnected and working in tandem with tens and sometimes hundreds of other parts (working in tandem with other specific molecules of proteins, nucleic acids, ions, ligands, neurotransmitters, etc.).

Then, let’s look at the multicellular organisms. There’s a single genetic code, made up of four “letters” (four kinds of nucleic acid bases), and this common genetic code, this common coding language, encodes for every living being - from bats and dolphins with their sonars (ultrasound devices) to eagles with their specialized eyesight, from elephants and giraffes and whales, to colibris and mice and fruitflies and gnats, and our human physical bodies of course.

There’s amazing design in all this, and an amazing designer behind all that we see.

But there’s more to us humans than our physical bodies. We have our souls, which are supernatural, created by the supernatural God, and no natural science, no natural instruments are able to measure our souls. This is because the supernatural is outside and above of the realm of the natural world. Natural science cannot measure the supernatural, it cannot measure the human soul, it cannot measure the angels and devils, it cannot measure God. However, when the supernatural world chooses to manifest itself in the natural realm, e.g. when miracles happen (miraculous healings, Jesus walking on water etc), or with the incarnation of Jesus Christ in a human physical body, than we can observe a manifestation of the supernatural world in our physical realm.


#9

Hi Rachel,

Welcome home and I hope you find lots of happiness on your journey with God.

Now I know this is the last thing you want to hear but I will say it anyways. You are only 22 there is lots of time in the future for marriage. Ground yourself in God and he will provide the right man to marry.

And this is the though that occured to me (do with it as you will). There is a saying something to the effect 'If you love someone, let them go. If they love you they will be back and if they don't love you your better off without them.' I think your fiancee needs to hear that (but I don't think you should be the one to tell him)

I think that your fiancee can secretly boast to himself that he has help you and straighten your life out. Now that you are finding strengh in God, your fiancee's position as top dog is threatened. And he can't bear to loose that control over you.

I would tell him something to the effect 'Thank you for all your support but you are human and can only do so much. I need to be able to find other things to lean on and I am hoping you will always be there for me even though I will have other pillars in my life'

If he can not accept that, then I think you need to do some serious thinking

Also, as much as what he did was good (ie helping you get clean and sober) that is a big job and usually a healthy man knows that is not what marriage is about. At some point as much as a man loves his wife, he does want someone with some competence who can get support else where. I think your fiancee has a care-taker issue

CM


#10

some of the greatest scientists throughout history were monks, jesuits, priests, etc.

Praying for you, my fellow technical degree holding scientist-like person. :)


#11

Thank you everyone for the love and replys :)!

so great to know there are many science loving christians out there, as you all know live extra-ordinary. So many great things to learn.

Referring to my partner, he never intentionally set out to get me “clean” he was merely a good influence. He made me want to be a better person, I think your significant other should have that affect on you. Don’t you agree? to bring out the better in each other.
He never in anyway has tried to stop me from doing anything or being controlling. I think deep down he had a bad christian experience when hurt him.

On the other hand I have some great news :), we had a discussion last night about me starting to attend church. And he has agree’d to let me go, without an arguement he was actually fine. Most of the problem he had was with me going to a “new-age” christian church, he feels some of them are cult like. So thank you again for all your love and support and prayer, I know god is calling me home.

Please continue to post, it’s great to have some support. It is hard for me to take this journey alone but I know god will guide me. And the science stuff was great, it’s nice having people around who think the same as I do when it comes to science.


#12

And he has agree’d to let me go, without …

You state that in a physical way. As if first you need his permission - to exercise your spiritual connection to God.

Is it normal in your relationship that you feed off his approval and his anxieties?

To various degrees, his anxiety will increase throughout your lifelong conversion process with God.

The sad truth is - his disbelief will always be an absence of growth. He can’t give to you or share with you - what he does not possess.


#13

I guess in a way I was seeking his permission because I would never want to go behind his back and do this. I’d rather start my spiritual journey with his acceptance so that I can begina my relationship with god and in the process I don’t create a rift in the relationship with him.

I don’t want him to be attatcked for this, I pray that he will one day see how great god has been in my life and will want that too.

I am merely asking for advice as I am sure I am not the only one to have gone through this situation. I am not asking for him to be judged or attatcked


#14

and no I don’t feed off of his anxieties or have ever before sought his approval, I generally do what I please but I feel in a relationship to make it work you should be open and honest with each other it’s a 2 way street.

In fact the conversation we had the other day about me starting to attend church, was very open. He accepted the fact I had the yearning to seek out go, he admitted it to be part of human nature to do so. He even apologised for his intial reaction.

I think that this is a very good thing, he has accepted my want to become catholic and is now going to be supportive like a loving partner should


#15

Sounds like you are on a journey home and God (with a capital G is calling you through the Holy Spirit. Congratulations for having an open heart and mind.:clapping:

I would advice you to be careful with atheists. If you are getting married to this guy who has strong disagreements with the CC, you are bound to have some major hurdles in the future and could cause big heartaches. I personally would not marry an atheist, just because I am a cradle Catholic in lock step with the Pope. But thats just me. Keep your faith strong and pray to the Holy Spirit for your enlightenment and maybe his. I hope that you continue on your journey and not give up. Have you considered going to an RCIA so that your knowledge about the CC may be broadened?


#16

Yes, I will be starting RCIA at a local parish in september. A while away but time to give me a great bond with god and attend mass weekly.

I hope my fiance will one day take the journey home with me :)

Thanks for your support


closed #17

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