Someone help me with Pope Bonafice VIII quotes!


#1

Someone help me out with these quotes! An Orthodox guy gave them to me as a way to disprove the Papacy.

The following is taken from:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Boniface_VIII

Papal quotations and later process
King Philip IV of France initiated a process against the memory of pope Boniface VIII in 1310. Although inspired by his personal hatred of the deceased pope, the many witnesses and their statements are regarded as credible by modern historiography. Especially the testimonies in the examination held at Groseau in the August and September of 1310 revealed many bold sayings of Boniface VIII, partially rather nihilist-hedonist, partially remarkably critical-freethinking. E.g., Boniface VIII was reported to have said,

The Christian religion is a human invention like the faith of the Jews and the Arabs;
The dead will rise just as little as my horse which died yesterday;
Mary, when she bore Christ, was just as little a virgin as my own mother when she gave birth to me;
Sex and the satisfaction of natural drives is as little a sin as handwashing;
Paradise and hell only exist on earth; the healthy, rich and happy people live in the earthly paradise, the poor and the sick are in the earthly hell;
The world will exist forever, only we do not;
Any religion and especially Christianity does not only contain some truth, but also many errors. The long list of Christian untruth includes trinity, the virgin birth, the godly nature of Jesus, the eucharistic transformation of bread and wine into the body of Christ and the resurrection of the dead.
In spite of these reported comments, the process against his memory was settled without a result in 1312.


#2

This article may help.

newadvent.org/cathen/02662a.htm


#3

I have done a search of the top four of these quotes and can not find anything except the exact article that is from. There are several sites that show the exact same article, but nothing at all other than that.


#4

James_2:24 wrote:

Someone help me out with these quotes! An Orthodox guy gave them to me as a way to disprove the Papacy.

People can and do say anything - even wildly exaggerated and false claims! I **could **say that I am young, very handsome and athletic, and well endowed financially, and am looking for a good Catholic girl to marry who is similarly well endowed.

Surely, anyone who may be interested in replying would want some sort of proof as to my claims? Of course, there may well be some gullible persons who might reply and who I might be able to get to share a portion of their worldly goods. Egad! What a cad!

Well, the same applies to your Orthodox friend. The burden of proof is on the sayer thereof; demand that he name the name of the official documents produced by Boniface VIII containing those precise claims - all of them, mind!

But, in any event, even if he could do so (which he can’t!), he still does NOT prove his claim that the Papacy (as an institution) is "disproved. But, first of all, to have any weight in the argument, Boniface must have said these things (any of them) in his official capacity as Pope, binding the consciences of all Catholics to believe. Perhaps he might have said something like what is claimed in a private capacity - not in an official capacity? So what? There is no contest that a Pope can and has made utterances as a Private Doctor of the Church (not involving his position as Pope, teaching the flock) which have been or may have been heretical. However, there is solid evidence that no Pope - as Pope - has ever been formally guilty of heresy and has sought to oblige any Catholic to believe in his private heresy.

So, even if we admit that a Pope can subscribe privately to heresy - even this does not "disprove the Papacy; it only proves that Popes can sin.

Evidence is required before we start shedding any tears, eh?


#5

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