Somewhat hypothetical situation...porn


#1

ok so…I know that pornography is a big problem…it causes all kinds of relationship/intimacy issues…etc…

I’ve often heard it said that if a man watches porn, it takes away from his wife…its selfish and one sided…he might sexualize her…she might be jealous…feel insecure…etc etc…

ok so, for myself, I am very confident and secure in who i am, and do not get jealous…really…at all. i just dont…i could tell you the reason why is because i have so much faith in our Lord that I know I’ll always be alright and God giveth and God taketh away and if a mans gonna stray…well…I just have this habit of offerin’ it up to God…but thats me…and thats not the majority of women…

so…lets say, for this few percentage of women…if they are not offended by it…is it still taboo for their husbands??

lets say, that a man likes watching porn…the womans okay with it. lets say its not selfish or onesided because sometimes they watch it together…lets say it does WONDERS for their sex life… is it still bad??? if theres no fighting over it…no underlying feeligs of resentment…its never even a thought between the two of them that the other is in some way disrespecting them?? is it ok then?


#2

Its disgusting and degrading!!! I would not like to watch men or women in these videos dvd whatever as they are degrading themselves letting people watch them at their most tender moments. I think they are no better than prostitutes. I beleive intimicy is between man and wife period.


#3

You are not alone, most women I know… ok 95% of them before I started reading CA didn’t have a problem with their husbands watching porn from time to time. (most of these people were Protestant though) Not a single one of these women felt it took away from their marriage nor threatened them in anyway whatsoever. In fact many liked the fact that their husbands were always coming up with new ideas. Many couples I know even view it together as “marital enhancements.”

The Church teaches though that it is a mortal sin (there are a lot of mortal sins though - Gossip and how it can ruin people lives but is often ignored by those zealous against porn). I’m a realist though so in our sexualized culture I would expect people to fail from time to time, just like I expect them to gossip from time to time.

For most men (and women) I know who viewed or may view it (some don’t believe it’s wrong) it’s not about choosing someone over their spouse. The porn is rather viewed because they couldn’t be with their spouse. Does this make it right? of course not. Does it put the “blame” on the spouse, of course not. Like anything else, it’s a failure of the will to do the right thing, we need to treat it as such, ask forgiveness and work on doing better next time.

Like anything else though, it can become an addiction - which is really very rare no matter what some seem to think. If it does then it’s not longer just sin that needs to be dealt with and should be treated like any other addiction before it ruins the relationship.


#4

well … yeah…but if its consensual…and technically the ‘intimacy’ IS between the husband and wife…i mean, some men, see their wives cooking in the kitchen and that turns them on…they might sneak up behind them and hug them from behind…or cop a feel…something eluding to ‘hey lets go to the bedroom’…

and…some men might find pornograhpy a turn on…

i could see if it bothered the wife, why he should stop…but if it doesnt?? what if she is equally turned on by it?? it couldnt be used as a tool to liven up their sex life? being that all other factors of the marriage remain the same and are unaffected by it?


#5

As a young man who struggles with this vice, I can tell you that there is no possible way that pornography can benefit a marriage. Pornography is all about providing men (and women) with a (self-centered) sexual outlet. Intending to get aroused by anyone other than a spouse is lust–something that is completely incompatible with the type of love that God calls us to have for a spouse.

Pornography is like a drug for many men because it provides both a physical habitual addiction and a bio-chemical addiction–on top of that, porn is more readily available than almost any other type of media. This habitual vice is extremely hard to overcome, especially in today’s hyper-sexual culture where I could access literally thousands of pornographic in seconds. (Even typing this message is causing me to be tempted.)
Please don’t fall into the false notion that pornography can help a relationship. When I’m with my future wife for the first time, I don’t want any other woman to enter my mind as a result of my vice.

Also, don’t support an industry that marginalizes the most vulnerable women: marieclaire.com/sex-love/relationship-issues/articles/secret-life-porn-star (I don’t know what the rest of this website is like, so be cautious.)

PS… there are numerous other ways to enhance your sex life… i’m sure that some of the married CAFers can comment on that subject more thoroughly than I can.

Catechism:

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.


#6

*Hi Charlotte–

My husband and I both viewed it early on in our marriage, and to us, since we viewed it ‘together,’ we thought it was harmless. What happens is very subtle though…viewing porn, even together, causes the couple to start focusing on the ‘acts’ taking place in the porn, and not on one another. I remember thinking about what I had just viewed, and not my husband, when we were together…and he admitted the same. :blush: THAT is not an edifying thing to a marriage. It was ‘fun’ to a degree when it was happening, but then it became a habit, and something we ‘added’ to our sex life, as though we ‘needed’ to view it to become excited. Slowly but surely, porn tainted the purity of our marital embrace. It really did…and for that, it was and is wrong. Not to mention the degradation of the women in the porn. Not to mention that it depicts men and women in situations that are not edifying to God or marriage. :frowning: The scenes that are depicted are often anti-marriage, and pro-birth control. Through increasing our prayer life, and immersing ouselves more in our parish…basically, becoming more devoted to the Lord–the porn viewing just sort of fell away from our lives…without a lot of effort.

So…as you can see, even when a couple cooperates in the viewing together…it can damage the purity of the marriage. :o*


#7

Another thing about porn is, if you are watching it whether for free or not, you are giving to an industry that is promoting promiscuity. Is porn about the love between man and wife? I can assume to say no. I have never watched porn so I can’t be sure, but I’m sure that much of porn is not a sex scene between man and wife. And if it were, how wrong is that? God creating the act of sex to unite a man and his wife. Not to allow strangers in on this intimate moment.

And having read many people’s responses to people with porn addictions, when you get turned on by watching porn, and then go on to be intimate with your spouse, many times it’s about your need for sex, not about the love for your spouse. It can become selfish even if it didn’t start out that way…


#8

*Exactly…it didn’t start out that way, but I recall it becoming that way. I’m so glad that my dh and I stopped that ‘habit’ a long time ago…it’s not the healthy, holy way of the gift of sexuality that God blessed us with. I think that the unitive and procreative aspects of the marital embrace are left out of the equation when a couple introduces porn into their marriage. I think you hit the nail on the head…what starts off as a way for a couple to enjoy one another, turns self-centered very quickly.

Charlotte–I hope these points help you to see a bit more as to why porn, even if a wife is ‘ok’ with it, is wrong to bring into a relationship. *


#9

Many, and in fact I have heard that most, of the actors in pornography are victims of sexual abuse. I really can not see any way that healthy people can watch pornography and not feel sick about it.

Also, I think pornography tends to isolate sex to where it is just some stimulating activity that could occur between anybody, just insert random person into this random position. Sex really should be something between two unique people, a husband and a wife, with no one else involved.

Sometimes we get involved in things that are harmful and destructive and we just can’t see it. We really need to take it as a matter of faith that what the Church teaches is what is best for our own well being. It is really better to not have to learn everything the hard way.


#10

Oh sweetheart!!! :heart::hug1::heart:

** ‘whatevergirl’** <- shes so dear to me!

Thats a beautiful allegory…a lot like you I have always been somewhat indifferent to it…I would never do it, I’d never allow or accept my daughter doing it…and I never agreed with it…but I never felt threatened by it.

But you guys have all given me great insight…thanx so much :smiley:


#11

Ever since I came into my faith, I find porn disgusting…I find it to be exact opposite of what God would want us to view…or do for that matter…Our society is becoming obsessed with sex a and sexual innuendos…It’s hard to watch any mainstream tv anymore without being bombarded with it…


#12

Here is why, in my thinking, mutual porn use does not enhance intimacy between a couple. You are watching two (or more!) strangers fornicate. That purely visual and unloving stimulus causes you to become sexually aroused. You then turn to your spouse and you use each other to relieve the sexual tension created by viewing the porn. Love didn’t inspire it, tenderness didn’t inspire it, even physical desire for each other didn’t inspire it. The woman might as well be a blow up doll and the man might as well be a dildo in this scenario. Because that’s how much the personal relationship between the two had to do with the sex that’s being had after viewing porn.

Like WG, I came to this after looking at porn with my husband a few times. It felt wrong and gross, so we just stopped. When I realized this dynamic, all desire to ever look at porn left me. It was sort of fun in college, like breaking a big taboo, but that wears off fast, and after that, you see just how gross the whole thing is. At least, I did. My DH never really had any desire to use porn and is perfectly happy without it. Our sex life is very satisfying for both of us, and part of the reason for that is because each of us knows that the other approaches in desire based on our personal relationship and the love we share. There are no third parties or interlopers.

You may think it “does wonders” for your sex life, and it might be true that you get more physically aroused than without it. But it does nothing to nurture or support the spiritual part of your sexual relationship and can in fact damage it. And besides, that physical response will wear off after the first few times you’ve seen it, and then you have to buy another, and another, and another. Better to work on your arousal through education about techniques and experimentation with your spouse, in the spirit of love, adventure, and mutual service.


#13

Good question, and the answer is much more simple than it seems.

We know without a doubt, through the Church that viewing pornography is objectively sinful.

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties.** It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others.** It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Objectively being the operative word. It doesn’t mater in the slightest if we’re offended, not offended, think it’s gross, think it’s hot, love it or hate it. Our perceptions and feelings have no bearing on whether or not it’s a sin. After all, there are people who don’t think abortion is a sin and don’t have any feelings about others having them, and obviously that doesn’t change the fact that it IS objectively wrong and offensive to God, if not to us.

This is why I think it’s so great, to be Catholic and have these crystal clear teachings to go to. We don’t have to ‘think’ that something might be wrong, we can know for sure it is, and do our best to avoid it.


#14

(bolded for emphasis by me) I really like what you say here. I think that is so true, for both my dh and me. To think of bringing that garbage back into things, doesn’t even enter our minds. I know my husband doesn’t view it, I know that it was something we did as a couple, and perhaps, he had no desire to view it on his own. I don’t know. But, I will say that when ‘third parties’ are introduced, just mentally even, into the marital bed, it taints the act. It causes your focus to be divided. The marriage bed should never be divided! I really like reading that I am not alone in my thoughts on that, and your post just jumped out at me today. :slight_smile:


#15

SO TRUE!! I used to watch VH1 BIG TIME…Rock of Love…I Love New York…then one day, my baby…she was like…oh…I’d say 3 or 4…starts dancing but shes shakin’ her booty…did it a little too well…:eek: I looked at her, then over at the TV…at her…then the TV…

then I got up n shut that c**p off!! At the time she was so young, I never thought of her soaking any of it in…you know, she’d be watching her own TV and just walk by time to time, she never really SAT down infront and watched with me, so I didnt think it was influencing her that much…NOT TRUE…kids pick that stuff up so quick n easy man…scary…but even at that level…could you imagine PORN?? I’d be frekn mortified man…I cant even have it in the house cuz I’ve had friends tell me (they watch with their boyfriends/husbands) that they forgot the DVD in the TV…the next morning the kids get up and turn on the TV and BOOM! they get an eyeful front and center… I’d DIE!!

thats gotta mess a kid up…for awhile…

You then turn to your spouse and you use each other **to relieve the sexual tension **created by viewing the porn. Love didn’t inspire it, tenderness didn’t inspire it, even physical desire for each other didn’t inspire it. The woman might as well be a blow up doll and the man might as well be a dildo in this scenario. Because that’s how much the personal relationship between the two had to do with the sex that’s being had after viewing porn.

It takes the meaning out of sex…thats it right there…next time I get into a convo about why porns bad imma hit em’ with that one…perfectly said …
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#16

We are a TV Free family and I can highly recommend it.:wink: When our older girls were just starting high school they would sit and watch VH1, MTV and the other sewage during the summer and on the weekend. On day we said enough is enough and went to the most basic level of cable and are still there. My DW loves TV but our older girls are now in college and will actually pick roommates based on whether they are big TV watchers or not.:cool:

With the TV ads today it is gotten even more ridiculous. I do not miss the Idiot Box one bit. Get all my news, on-line and videos as well. TV has turned itself into a sewage pipe coming to our homes, for us it is good riddens.:hammering:


#17

*Hi GD :wave:

I don’t think tv in general is bad…there are a lot of educational, insightful programs out there. I don’t watch tv all that much, but I think the Food Network, EWTN, (sometimes) the news, and other stations provide good programming. Now, the commercials, yes, they are out of hand…but, I just couldn’t throw out our tv sets! :stuck_out_tongue: Kudos to you…how did you get your wife to approve?? :wink: :o*


#18

I am glad that works for your family, GratefulDad, but it’s not necessary. With the ease of parental controls these days, you can filter out the bad while allowing in the good and the harmless. And yes, there is good on TV.


#19

Yes, my sweet wifey has made and continues to make, a big sacrifice for her family in this way. I try and remember to do extra things for her weekly, as in “go for this or gofor that” on family errands. It is still a sacrifice for her but she knows it pays off in a huge way, as we are trying to protect our Eight Grader from the media sewage now.

Salty - there are some decent TV programs, but you still have to be wary of the commercials.:eek: You certainly can filter out this program or TIVO the commercials, but having the bare minimum TV sends a message to our children that TV is really not that significant to our daily lives, it sends a message to the cable companies that we are not going to give them our money for them to send us media garbage and filth.

In parenting you have to pick your battles sometimes. I guess this is similar to “if your eye causes you to sin, them better to pluck it out, than be thrust into Gehenna.”:shrug:

But the net is being a TV Free family has been one of the most beneficial things we have done in rearing our children. Your mileage may vary.:smiley:


#20

Yeah and on a side note, the garbage thats ON t.v aside…tv ITSELF gets kinda ugly…I started by cutting out VH1…which was an ENTIRE channel…but then, there are other shows on good channels that slip in…like, Family Guy…OH I CANT STAND THAT SHOW! so I started being more careful on a show-to-show basis…but even then…

sometimes I’d walk in the room…and I’d talk to my kid…and she wouldn’t respond…i’d walk right up to her…and nothing…I’d pull her away with a ‘helloooo…earth to jaylie’ and she’d look at me and -OATMEAL- complete oatmeal brains…

after a couple of those I was just like man!! this is ALL bad…lol…so I cut down on TV all together…I dont know if i could cut it completely out, just because the house gets so lonely and quiet…but…yeah…TV=OATMEAL BRAINS!! :smiley:


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