Souls in Purgatory and Heaven

What does the Church have to say, if anything, about the souls in Purgatory and/or Heaven knowing what their loved ones are doing or how they are that are here on earth.

Hi Lakotak,

I don’t think there is an official doctrine on how our loved ones can relate to us in the afterlife. As they pass from the purification stage of purgatory to the contemplation of God, they can theoretically see what God sees, and God sees everything. However, we are taught that we can pray to them, so they can intercede with God on our behalf, so they must be aware in some way of how we are doing.

Verbum

In Luke 16:19-31 you see the rich man talking to Abraham, asking Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his family as so they will not suffer the same fate as he. That would point to the fact that even though he is in purgatory, he knows what his family is up to and still cares enough to try and help them.

On a side note, I understand that the passage from Luke may or may not be talking about Purgatory. I have seen agruments on both sides and I am unsure if there is an offical teaching on the subject. I just don’t want this post to get side tracked over it. We can start a new thread.

Hi Verbum and Fermat

Thanks you so much for taking the time to make a reply. This is something I have wondered about since my mother died last year. Thanks.

In addition, St Catherine in her **“Dialogs” **says that those in heaven are even more closely tied to those they Loved on earth since their Love is now perfected by God.

"And they have a special participation with those whom they closely loved with particular affection in the world, with which affection they grew in grace, increasing virtue, and the one was the occasion to the other of manifesting the glory and praise of My name, in themselves and in their neighbor; and, in the life everlasting, they have not lost their love, but have it still, participating closely, with more abundance, the one with the other, their love being added to the universal good,

Peace
James

Hi,

Thank you for this information. I do have a copy of The Dialogue of Saint Catherine of Siena, and I need to get back to reading it. Do you happen to have a page number where this statement is made?

Oh Boy - That’s a toughie. I’ll try to find it though and let you know.

Peace
James

Lucked out. In my book it begins on page 110. It is in the section called, "ON the Glory of the Blessed.

I also have had trouble getting through the dialogs. There wonderful but they do take some time. Actually this partcular section I know about from reading “The fulfillment of All Desire” by Ralph Martin.

Thanks so much. Actually, for the first few years after I came into the Church, I started reading the Dialogue. I found the book again, so now I am older and a little more spiritually mature, I am going to read it again, I actually started this evening. The strange thing is when I first came into the Church, and for quite a few year, I had a drawing to God the Father, not Jesus. Gradually, I started to love Jesus, but not in the beginning. Very strange.

I don’t think it strange at all. I too am drawn to “Our Father”. After all it is Jesus himself taught to pray toward Him.

God is our Father,
Jesus our Brother and Lord.
The Holy Spirit is our link with, and wisdom of, the other two.
And each and all bound together in Love.

Peace
James

=lakotak;6207062]What does the Church have to say, if anything, about the souls in Purgatory and/or Heaven knowing what their loved ones are doing or how they are that are here on earth.

***Heavn [and for tht matter; Hell] are for Eterinity.

Purgatory is but a place of temporary residence and purification. It is a place in which to be Perfected, which is necessary BEFORE gaining access to Heaven

For God time does not exist, so we cannot know how long ones needs in order to be Perfected. What we have done and failed to do are the derermineing factors. It is of minor revelance in that Heaven is still asurred.***

Hello,

There is a book called “Get Us Out Of Here” by Nicholas Eltz who interviewed Maria Simma who responds to the calls from the poor souls in Purgatory. It has changed my life, I hardly ever prayed for the souls in Purgatory but after reading the book it made me realise that they need our prayers.

There is a simple prayer from St. Gertrude which will deliver many souls from Purgatory

Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.

God Bless you all

Fermat,
I’m interested in hearing the debate or discussion regarding Luke16:19-31 whether the soul was damned to Hell or was suffering in Purgatory. If you don’t wish to start a new thread about it, please message me. I’ve been curious about this ever since reading your post a few days ago.

Hello all

I am new here and wish to discuss this subject politely

The scriptures reveal that

  1. those who knowingly reject Jesus’ will be Judged and damned,
  2. there will be those who will be saved from this judgement “as by the skin of their teeth”
  3. there are those who will not face Judgement “because they have passed from death to life” by the whole hearted acceptance of Jesus’ testimony.
  4. there is also a case for deferred judgement due to acts of Grace, by that i mean anyone who for example risks and loses his/her life, in order to save another’s life, or the case where a person loses their life through war, or through crime.
  5. all the above cases (except 3. ) refer to what Catholics (like me) were taught as being Purgatorial situations, and 3 could also be the same , because the circumstances might warrrant it.
  6. Jesus reveals a greater aspiration than to be saved when he says "those that aspire the next world are like children (angels) " St Paul says that “for a while we are made a little less than the angels”.
    6.1,. this world is totally different than purgatory, and the angels are able to witness truth and revealing truth, the fact that from their world can be seen resurrections which are triumphant or pitiful.
    6.2 their is a dimensional blindness, in this world, scripture tells us that when Christ was born, it was the angels who witnessed to him, therefore their world became opened by his birth, and it was their world which watched him rise from the dead, and remain in our world berfore his ascension.
    6.3 to them the resurrection of many has already occurred, Our Lady and the Saints up until the 10th century have risen and also ascended , where these same angels will follow.

EarnestBeleiver

Been studying about Purgatory for 30+ years.

The key to understanding purgatory is about accepting the degree of purity that is necessary to be in the immediate presence of God.

Let me preface any remarks by stating that I have not had the grace of hearing God speak to me in a voice like we hear when other people speak to us, and far, far more frequently information is from books that carry the “Nihil Obstat” and the “Imprimatur” some, or most of them translations of much older texts written in different languages, i.e. German, Italian, French, Spanish to name a few.
I am not a scholar by any means but even in the secular world “Ignorance of the Law is no excuse” so I would expect all the me’s in the world to study Catholic information since we have 2000+ years of it. Which all these ‘Johnny come lately’s’ do not.

Maybe I can ‘not’ answer your question but give my more like-- humble opinion.
I have thought of what you ask about the Rich Man and Lazarus’ situation (more the Rich Man by the question) many times over the years and will say this, --Purgatory–and “I hope”.

Of the information I base my conclusion on this is the most telling at verse 26

v. 26 “And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither”. Douay-Rhiems translation

To me, those who now know of God without their mortal life ahead of them anymore would not wish to interfere with Hell and those in Hell would not desire Heaven as evidenced with the “…gnashing of teeth…" verse(s) in scripture.

Luke 15:10
“In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

Saints in heaven are pure spirit just like angels, and this verse demontrates that heavenly beings are aware of events on earth

Nice :thumbsup:

Peace
James

Another resource for independent and informative study is a classic and easy read, Purgatory, Explained By The LIves and Legends of the Saints (Schouppe, SJ, ). Of course, it has the appropriate ecclesial approvals, and contains excerpts from the writings of, or descriptions about, many of the saints’ experiences and insights. I found it to be very helpful in understanding this truth of our faith.

God bless.

Hello Genettee

The key to understanding purgatory is about accepting the degree of purity that is necessary to be in the immediate presence of God…

  1. God Our Father, is not accessible to us but through Christ alone
    7.2 God The Spirit of Truth, is zealous to keep all those who do not have Christ’s image from the Father, in whom there is no iniquity.
    7.3 God The Son, has laid out his manifesto, the terms and conditions of discipleship, in which we wash our robes in the blood of the lamb, (thereby negating Purgatory).

I am not a scholar by any means but even in the secular world “Ignorance of the Law is no excuse” so I would expect all the me’s in the world to study Catholic information since we have 2000+ years of it. Which all these ‘Johnny come lately’s’ do not.

  1. St Paul say’s that his discipleship was written by God the Father, whilst he was still in the womb, how many Catholics could accept this as a literal truth, John the Baptist say’s of Jesus “He who is from above is greater than all” St Paul must have understood John’s statement as an endorsement of his mission.

Of the information I base my conclusion on this is the most telling at verse 26
v. 26 “And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither”. Douay-Rhiems translation
To me, those who now know of God without their mortal life ahead of them anymore would not wish to interfere with Hell and those in Hell would not desire Heaven as evidenced with the “…gnashing of teeth…" verse(s) in scripture./

  1. This verse is quite correct, but not understood properly, in Purgatory there are many rooms (or worlds) and you cannot leave one for another without the effect of some grace, which will be granted through accepting or endorsing some truth.
    9.1 The subject of the v 26 is aware of the cause of his predicament and through grace (which is a sign of hope) wishes to convey these truths to his relatives, but because of the Law, he is prevented but he may have a great hope in Jesus’s descent among the dead, if this man had been Judged and damned he could not have spoken like this because the whole wrath of God the Spirit of Truth (which is Jesus) would have been upon him.

=misscharlene85;6228218]Fermat,
I’m interested in hearing the debate or discussion regarding Luke16:19-31 whether the soul was damned to Hell or was suffering in Purgatory. If you don’t wish to start a new thread about it, please message me. I’ve been curious about this ever since reading your post a few days ago.

***Friend,

I too would be intrested in such a debate.

Please let me know if you start a new thread on the subject.

Love an prayers,
Pat

PJM***

Remember that the original question is if the rich man was in Purgatory or Hell.

I was just trying to keep the answer to that question narrow and use the scripture and it’s context in the answer. I am trying to avoid a treatise as to the how and the why of purgatory.

However, “Purgatory, Explained By The Lives…” is an excellent source of information, i used to keep it by my bedside, for years, but eventually passed that copy to someone else. also gave a copy to some whom I sponsored for Confirmation.
Another is “How to Avoid Purgatory” by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan

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