Souls of clones?


#1

Does a clone (and any other kind of “Test Tube Baby” that isn’t concived in the normal way) have a soul?
Is cloneing (and all that kind of stuff) moral?
Thanks and God bless.


#2

[quote=Montie Claunch]Does a clone (and any other kind of “Test Tube Baby” that isn’t concived in the normal way) have a soul?
Is cloneing (and all that kind of stuff) moral?
Thanks and God bless.
[/quote]

You should do a search. This was asked in another thread. All human beings have a soul whether they are clones or not.


#3

[quote=Montie Claunch] Does a clone (and any other kind of “Test Tube Baby” that isn’t concived in the normal way) have a soul?
[/quote]

Yes, the do have a soul, created by God.

[quote=Montie Claunch]Is cloneing (and all that kind of stuff) moral?
[/quote]

No.


#4

A human clone would be a copy of an already/previously existing person brought into being through the human manipulation of matter. It might look human, act human, and in every measurable sense appear human, but I think it’s nature would be that of a “fictional” human.

A good question might be; if in cloning a human do we also clone that person’s soul as well?


#5

[quote=Wildgraywolf] A good question might be; if in cloning a human do we also clone that person’s soul as well?
[/quote]

No. The soul is not material. It is specially created by God.


#6

[quote=1ke]No. The soul is not material. It is specially created by God.
[/quote]

I am certain that at the moment of conception God creates that person’s human immortal soul. I think clones might have some kind of animated soul, but not a human one.


#7

[quote=Wildgraywolf]I am certain that at the moment of conception God creates that person’s human immortal soul. I think clones might have some kind of animated soul, but not a human one.
[/quote]

A “clone” of a human is a human-- just as an embryo created through IVF is a human-- and all humans have human souls.


#8

[quote=1ke]A “clone” of a human is a human-- just as an embryo created through IVF is a human-- and all humans have human souls.
[/quote]

No it’s not. Cloning is an entirely different process. A clone is created from cells of an already existing person - an exact biological copy of that person. In an IVF procedure or normal human reproduction the sperm and ovum are brought together, conception occurs and a new person is created. Where there is conception there is a new life.

You don’t get a new person from cloning, you get a copy. So if you clone a human do you also clone his soul?


#9

[quote=Wildgraywolf]No it’s not. Cloning is an entirely different process. A clone is created from cells of an already existing person - an exact biological copy of that person. In an IVF procedure or normal human reproduction the sperm and ovum are brought together, conception occurs and a new person is created. Where there is conception there is a new life.

You don’t get a new person from cloning, you get a copy. So if you clone a human do you also clone his soul?
[/quote]

When you create a clone, you do get a new person. They are unique with their own life experiences that cause them to grow and cahnge. There is no way that a clone would be exactly like the person cloned. For one thing, the clone would be younger.


#10

[quote=ElizabethAnne]When you create a clone, you do get a new person. They are unique with their own life experiences that cause them to grow and cahnge. There is no way that a clone would be exactly like the person cloned. For one thing, the clone would be younger.
[/quote]

No you don’t; what you get is a biological copy of the same person who would then have different life experiences. Life experiences do not make us human; we are human at the moment of conception - before we have any life experiences.

Still the question remains: If you clone a human do you also clone his soul?


#11

*Asked and answered. *

No, a soul cannot be “cloned” as souls are not material.

God specially creates each soul, and there is a one-to-one relationship of souls to persons, not a one-to-many relationship.


#12

[quote=Wildgraywolf]No you don’t; what you get is a biological copy of the same person who would then have different life experiences. Life experiences do not make us human; we are human at the moment of conception - before we have any life experiences.

Still the question remains: If you clone a human do you also clone his soul?
[/quote]

Twins have identical genes. Are they two different people?


#13

[quote=1ke]*Asked and answered. *

No, a soul cannot be “cloned” as souls are not material.

God specially creates each soul, and there is a one-to-one relationship of souls to persons, not a one-to-many relationship.
[/quote]

Okay, that makes sense. Now the next question is: Would God create a soul for a cloned human - a being brought about outside the biological process He created?


#14

[quote=Wildgraywolf]Okay, that makes sense. Now the next question is: Would God create a soul for a cloned human - a being brought about outside the biological process He created?
[/quote]

Or you could ask: Does He create souls for babies created by invitro fertilization? They are also made “outside the biological process He created.”

I have to say yes, He does. My reasoning is that the divorce of body and soul happens at death. Humans do not exist without their souls, and clones are human.

Now as to why God would allow us to sidestep the natural process of having children, I am excessively confused by that.


#15

[quote=ElizabethAnne]Twins have identical genes. Are they two different people?
[/quote]

Twins aren’t cloned they start from a fertilized ovum. The genetic material is provided by a father and mother (sperm & egg). What makes them twins is a result of cell divison.

A clone, on the other hand, is brought about through an entirely different process which utilizes material from an already existing person to make a genetic/biological copy of the same person. There is no fertilization and no conception.


#16

Children have come out of rape situtations, horrendously distorted offenses against sex. Children come from IVF. He gave man dominion over this world. Why does he still create people? Why does He allow evil? I don’t know, but He is God and He is a whole heck of a lot smarter than I am.


#17

[quote=ElizabethAnne]Or you could ask: Does He create souls for babies created by invitro fertilization? They are also made “outside the biological process He created.”

I have to say yes, He does. My reasoning is that the divorce of body and soul happens at death. Humans do not exist without their souls, and clones are human.

Now as to why God would allow us to sidestep the natural process of having children, I am excessively confused by that.
[/quote]

Well, what I am sure of is that God creates the soul at the moment of conception. If conception occurs with a sperm and ovum then there would be a complete human life. I’m not certain that a clone would have a human soul, because it was brought about by using cells of an already existing person. If as we say human life begins at conception and since a clone isn’t conceived I doubt it would be a complete human being.


#18

[quote=Wildgraywolf]Okay, that makes sense. Now the next question is: Would God create a soul for a cloned human - a being brought about outside the biological process He created?
[/quote]

Yes. All human persons have spiritual souls created by God regardless of their “method” of conception. The Church already teaches authoritatively regarding children created via IVF and other artificial technologies, cloning is merely another variation on IVF.


#19

[quote=Wildgraywolf]Well, what I am sure of is that God creates the soul at the moment of conception. If conception occurs with a sperm and ovum then there would be a complete human life. I’m not certain that a clone would have a human soul, because it was brought about by using cells of an already existing person. If as we say human life begins at conception and since a clone isn’t conceived I doubt it would be a complete human being.
[/quote]

You are using a very narrow definition of conception here indicating that there must be egg and sperm for conception to occur.

“Conception” is merely the biological beginning of a human life, whether it starts in the womb or a petri dish.

Conception via a cloning process is different from conception via IVF, which are both different from conception via sexual intercourse, but both have a point of conception that can be pinpointed.

In IVF and intercourse it is uniting of sperm and ova. In cloning it is the injection of DNA material and the stimulation of the cells to divide.

In all cases you have a human person created. And human persons are given a soul by God at the point that they begin to exist.

Adam and Eve were not conceived via sperm and egg-- and God breathed a soul into each.


#20

[quote=1ke]You are using a very narrow definition of conception here indicating that there must be egg and sperm for conception to occur.

“Conception” is merely the biological beginning of a human life, whether it starts in the womb or a petri dish.

Conception via a cloning process is different from conception via IVF, which are both different from conception via sexual intercourse, but both have a point of conception that can be pinpointed.
[/quote]

Well, If by narrow do you mean I’m excluding those critters that reproduce asexually, well then yes. I’m sure you realize that bisexual reproduction is the norm for just about every species on the planet. Conception in every instance brings fourth new life, no matter how diverse the process is. Cloning is a copy of existing life with material from one person stuffed into the hollowed out nucleus of somone/something elses cell and then cell division needs to be induced.

[quote=1ke]In IVF and intercourse it is uniting of sperm and ova. In cloning it is the injection of DNA material and the stimulation of the cells to divide.

In all cases you have a human person created. And human persons are given a soul by God at the point that they begin to exist.
[/quote]

My point is that in cloning there is no conception at all. In every other instance genetic material comes from sperm and ovum; thus fertilization/conception and a new person. Cloning is creating a copy of what already has been created.

[quote=1ke]Adam and Eve were not conceived via sperm and egg-- and God breathed a soul into each.
[/quote]

I would point out though that God made Adam a male and Eve a female with the command them to be fruitfull and multiply. Clearly God desires humanity to reproduce bisexually. I think if God wanted us to clone ourselves (reproduce asexually) we’d all be dandelions or amoebas. :wink:


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.