Speaking against Islam

I was wondering why people thought that the church wasn’t once again speaking up aginst Islam as it did several hundred years ago.
Unfourtunately I keep hearing Catholics say that we should look for the good things about Islam…While we should love the Muslim and not their beliefs, Islam is an absolute heresy and it seems like no one in the church will speak up against it.

[quote=flick427]I was wondering why people thought that the church wasn’t once again speaking up aginst Islam as it did several hundred years ago.
Unfourtunately I keep hearing Catholics say that we should look for the good things about Islam…While we should love the Muslim and not their beliefs, Islam is an absolute heresy and it seems like no one in the church will speak up against it.
[/quote]

It is in the atittude of today; multiculturalism is in, this was not always the case. Remember error has no rights?

As one cardinal so aptly put it, today we expect to persuade, to convince and talk our way through.

Fear; loss of Faith; inordinate human respect; a lack of true Charity.

While yes their is some overall too much politcal correctnees in the church today and wishy washy ecunemism we also have to recognize the fact that million practice the Islamic faith peacefully and live a moral life largely becuase of it.

As far as catholic teaching that it is heresey, yes we can still proclaim this, Islam lacks several essential teachings that God has provided us and it lacks the personal relationship with the Godhead that might be the clue to what is missing in the Islamic fundamentilist religious worldview. But we don’t want an Islamic backlash against catholic churches either we don’t want a Crusades type war as Islam will all be happy to oblidge.Leave the rhetoric and hate to them we need to proclaim in dialogue hopefully in language that is not conudsive to insult. Something that I have no talent for. I will leave to others thus I am not qualfied for a catholic and Muslim dialogue.

I don’t know what kind of “speaking up” is required. Everyone knows that Christians do not regard Mohammed as the final prophet or the Qur’an as divinely inspired. The Church’s position is pretty clear. Christians do need to speak up, and they need to speak up in two ways:

  1. Against the bigotry toward Islam expressed by many in the West–the stereotypes that all Muslims are terrorists, etc. Christians need to emphasize common ground with Muslims and show respect for Muslims’ piety, for their traditions of prayer, almsgiving, etc.

  2. Against the kind of “tolerance” that distorts the truth in order to make all religions equal and avoid offending everyone. Just as most people in our society speak freely about the atrocities committed by Christians, so we need to be willing to speak the truth about the dark side of Islam and the possible links between aspects of Islam and terrorist activity.

Balancing these two things is not easy, but it’s worthwhile.

In Christ,

Edwin

[quote=flick427]I was wondering why people thought that the church wasn’t once again speaking up aginst Islam as it did several hundred years ago.
Unfourtunately I keep hearing Catholics say that we should look for the good things about Islam…While we should love the Muslim and not their beliefs, Islam is an absolute heresy and it seems like no one in the church will speak up against it.
[/quote]

Absolute heresy? As in entirely and wholly heretical?

Read the Vatican II document Nostra Aetate.

I think most catholics who try to be kind to our Muslim friends are taking their cues from the Holy Father. Take up your gripe with him.

[quote=FelixBlue]Absolute heresy? As in entirely and wholly heretical?

Read the Vatican II document Nostra Aetate.
[/quote]

I will have to look for that document.
Basically I am just finding it strange that no one is saying it is stil wrong since some Catholics I know of have moved to too much of an acceptance toward it. We should seek peace among them, but we should still try to try and pray/work toward their conversion even if we are killed for it. It seems like there is too much apathy toward it even though the church was attacked by Muhammed and his followers many hundred years ago, and now we act like they will just leave us alone…but then there are problems like the one in Sudan right now. What is the church doing to settle this and perhaps come to a peaceful solution. For example are we working with Muslim leaders to get them to also condemn what is going on in Sudan? Or, are they sweeping it under the carpet. If the Muslims don’t condemn the attacks, then they are on the side of the aggressors.
Muslims (as any humans) are our neighbors. When we see that they do not have the truth about God (the Catholic faith) isn’t it our duty to bring it to them and not just try to understand and accept their "difference’ in religious beliefs. Sometimes love and the truth hurts…after all many of them were Christian (and other things) beore they were Islam.
This is not really an argument, though I may agree/disagree with something…I wish to be informed!:wink:

The Church should condemn poor human behavior wherever it exists. Condemning belief systems should be left to lesser churches.

The question is rhetorical. Do you want Muslims to move in and take over your neighborhood? What do they have that you want?

[quote=mark a]The Church should condemn poor human behavior wherever it exists. Condemning belief systems should be left to lesser churches.
[/quote]

huh???

The Church condems the sin (the belief system), not the sinner.

The non-Catholic traditions are such because of some or many heresies… what would you do with them??

Belief systems that are condemnable are found in the “lesser” churches!

Sydney´s Cardinal George Pell recently told an audience in the United States that Islam could be the “communism of the 21st century”, and that democracy is not a good in itself.

The Age reports that Cardinal Pell told the Acton Institute for the Study of Religion and Liberty last month that secular liberal democracy is empty and selfish, and Islam was emerging as an alternative world view that attracted the alienated.

In a speech in which he also attacked his critics for suggesting that conservative Christians were a danger to democracy, Cardinal Pell said communism has shown how the emptiness of the secular approach could be filled with something darker.

"The small but growing conversion of native Westerners within Western societies to Islam carries the suggestion that Islam may provide in the 21st century the attraction which communism provided in the 20th, both for those who are alienated or embittered on the one hand, and for those who seek order…

Dr Pell told the Institute that secular democracy could not stop the rise of intolerant religion and in fact worsened it. He said democracy is not a good in itself. Its value depends on the moral vision it serves.

“The past century provided examples enough of how the emptiness within secular democracy can be filled with darkness by political substitutes for religion.”

Dr Pell said the “democratic personalism” he advocates, based on the dignity of the person, is the last alternative to secular democracy available to the West.

theage.com.au/articles/2004/11/11/1100131136231.html

Those are interesting quotes, and I think there is some truth in them; however, I am curious as to why you changed from calling him “Cardinal Pell” to “Dr. Pell.” :confused:

Thanks, and God bless,

Anna

[quote=flick427]I was wondering why people thought that the church wasn’t once again speaking up aginst Islam as it did several hundred years ago.
Unfourtunately I keep hearing Catholics say that we should look for the good things about Islam…While we should love the Muslim and not their beliefs, Islam is an absolute heresy and it seems like no one in the church will speak up against it.
[/quote]

Everyone in the church knows that it is a heresy but you do not win converts by walking up to a muslim and calling him satan. If I walked up to a muslim and said, “repent of your ways or burn in Hell” smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_111v.gifI probably wouldn’t be giving a good view of Christianity.:slight_smile:

[quote=Anna Elizabeth]Those are interesting quotes, and I think there is some truth in them; however, I am curious as to why you changed from calling him “Cardinal Pell” to “Dr. Pell.” :confused:

Thanks, and God bless,

Anna
[/quote]

I didn’t change it - the report is an Aussie one; in the UK and Australia those with earned doctorates are referred to by Dr. - here in the US we normally stay with the church title. They’ll start off by using the church title to let you know where he comes from but then usually revert to the Dr.

[quote=jimmy]Everyone in the church knows that it is a heresy but you do not win converts by walking up to a muslim and calling him satan. If I walked up to a muslim and said, “repent of your ways or burn in Hell” smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_111v.gifI probably wouldn’t be giving a good view of Christianity.:slight_smile:
[/quote]

Depending on where you were at the time, you might not be walking away either.

Great point…the truth is so evident.

[quote=HagiaSophia]Depending on where you were at the time, you might not be walking away either.
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If Islam didn’t have such a beef with the Jews, i would even suggest a *formal *alliance with them.

They are not the true enemy, the godless are. I have talked to a few muslims now, and they agree on this.

Then again, who am i?

“**JamesS Declares Formal Alliance With Islam” NY TIMES **

:slight_smile: :wink:

Didn’t Vatican Two have something to say about that back 1965 ?

DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH
TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS **
[
cin.org/v2non.html**](“http://www.cin.org/v2non.html”)

[quote=jimmy] If I walked up to a muslim and said, “repent of your ways or burn in Hell” smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_111v.gifI probably wouldn’t be giving a good view of Christianity.:slight_smile:
[/quote]

My comment is only to the “repent of your ways”, in regard to Muslims, suggesting that they have evil ways. Yes, Islam is a heresy in the Christian sense of the word because we do not believe that Jesus is God. However, when looking at “ways” as you mentioned, comparing a *religious *Christian to a *somewhat religious *Muslim show a drastically different life in most cases. A somewhat religious Muslim man lowers his gaze when he sees a woman out of humbleness. He fasts a month out of a year, and then from time to time the rest of the year. He never says a word of disrespect or dishonor to his parents, not even saying “no” to them. He leaves the room or a table if anyone in his presence has alcohol. He leaves the room when anyone is backbiting against another person, or he stops in completely. He avoids relationships with women and only touches his wife, even avoiding shaking hands with other women for complete purity. Even if he is not married, he doesn’t date, but will find a wife through word of mouth about her morals. He prays formal prayers five times a day, and informal prayers at various times in the day. He doesn’t wear shorts or sleeveless shirts in modesty. He says “In the name of God, the most Gracious, the Most Merciful” before doing any action…I can go on and on about the things that a moderately religious educated Muslim does. A very religious Christian usually thinks this is extreme. A very religious Muslim goes far beyond that and works on memorizing the Qur’an everyday word for word in its original language. I have memorized several chapters in Arabic, but I don’t have enough discipline to do it everday. I gave up Music completely because there is alot of evil in it and Muslims are not supposed to indulge in it. I wear a scarf and wear loose clothing for modesty and purity and protection. Some of my friends don’t have a TV in their house because it is a way for so much evil to get into their house, but my husband and I have not been strong enough to get rid of it yet. Maybe by the time my daughter is older we will.
My very religious Catholic brother who has great faith had a 30,000 gambling debt before he went bankcrupt, has drank tons of alcohol over the years with his friends at get-togethers, and has had sexual activity outside of marraige. I saw this all the time in colleg too among the so called religious Christians. I know this is not Catholicism, it is only the faults of the individuals, so I am not bashing the religion,…just commenting on your comment about the “ways” of Muslims

Emily

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