Speaking in tongues ONLY proof?

This may seem like a silly question but…
How do we know we are filled with the Holy Spirit?

I am being told by some protestant friends(United Pentecostal) that we as Catholics cannot prove we are filled with the Holy Spirit because we do not ALL speak in tongues.
I understand that speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit and definitly serves as proof. But is it the only proof? And is it right that everyone should have to do it?
From my understanding, they believe that everyone must recieve the Holy Ghost by speaking in tongues before they are baptized.
This just doesn’t sound right to me and my apologetic skills are still rusty so I need help!
Thanks

Hello

The gift of speaking of tongues I believe is one of the charism of the Holy Spirit. ( There are others as well).

Do you know the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit?

I believe myself we have the gifts of the Holy Spirit but do not recognise them.

You can also pray for the Holy Spirit to descend inside your soul.

God Bless
Saint Andrew.

If you have been baptized and confirmed, you have received the Holy Spirit. Some people also receive a special grace sometimes called the Infilling of the Holy Spirit, or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which can greatly magnify our experience of His presence and gifts. If you have received the Infilling, you will know it.

Speaking in tongues is but one of many gifts of the Holy Spirit. See 1 Corinthians 12:
4: Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit;
5: and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord;
6: and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one.
7: To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
8: To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit,
9: to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10: to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11: All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

This is an unscriptural position that they take. There are many signs of the fullness of the Holy Spirit and the fact is that if you will attend their services, (which I do not recommend) you will find that they violate the scriptural mandates concerning speaking in tongues by allowing disorder in their services and speaking and praying in tongues aloud without it being clearly interpreted. 1st Corinthians speaks to this in particular since that church had this problem too (Both letters to the Corinthians are worth reading for context)

In fact, it is entirely possible for tongues to be not from the Holy Spirit at all, but from the devil, particularly where there is disorder and disobedience to the scriptures like that. I speak as one who spent many years in the Assembly of God (was a deacon there) and knows what I’m talking about.
Pax tecum,

Listen to Church Militant, and read the Bible.

Read Corinthinans 1, Read Romans 8 and 12, and there are many many others.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit are primarily faith, hope and love. There are other charisms, of which tongues is only 1.

I am actually involved in the charismatic group at my parish since my recent “baptism of the Holy Spirit”, which is really just a renewal. We all recieve the Spirit at our Confirmation but many of us don’t recognize it.

Faith is a journey, and a gift from God. We have to be receptive to it but the very idea that we must speak in tongues in order to “prove” that we are filled with the Spirit is hogwash!

In fact, that would be directly contradictory to the Bible. It would be along the lines of standing on street corners praying in order to be noticed.

I do not have the gift of tongues and I’m perfectly happy not to. Does that mean that I am not filled with the Holy Spirit? Fine if by their definition I am not. But really, it’s not for anyone but God to judge.

I ask all the time for God to send the Holy Spirit to fill me and others in my life, and the fruits are there…love, peace, charity, faith, etc.

Don’t let yourself be defined or condemned by people who are so misled. Pray for them.

What great posts.

I can’t add anything here except to say, REALLY GOOD JOB!

[quote=Church Militant]This is an unscriptural position that they take. There are many signs of the fullness of the Holy Spirit and the fact is that if you will attend their services, (which I do not recommend) you will find that they violate the scriptural mandates concerning speaking in tongues by allowing disorder in their services and speaking and praying in tongues aloud without it being clearly interpreted. 1st Corinthians speaks to this in particular since that church had this problem too (Both letters to the Corinthians are worth reading for context)

In fact, it is entirely possible for tongues to be not from the Holy Spirit at all, but from the devil, particularly where there is disorder and disobedience to the scriptures like that. I speak as one who spent many years in the Assembly of God (was a deacon there) and knows what I’m talking about.
Pax tecum,
[/quote]

What an awesome post!
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I should know, I was brought up in this sect of fanatics. (UPC) Like Church Militant said, do not attend their services no matter how much they pressure you.

Ask them, What they would do if, you were to take away their, Drums,Electric guitars, Tambourines, Pianos etc. Would they still worship as they do? I think not And I know whereof I speak.

An infilling of the Holy Spirit would not need any of these things. They are experiencing “emotionalism” and “revivalism” Not to mention their erroneous teaching on the nature of the Godhead. And their invalid Baptisms

Thank you Lord for leading me to the fullnes of Faith!
The “Pearl of great price” you spoke of in the Gospel of St. Matthew.

In Caritatae non Ficta

              God Bless our Holy Father Benedict XVI

if I remember right-- CHRIST taught @ 1 body, many parts.

those parts serve in different capacities to make the body function as 1, it is also the same for the fruits & gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT

p.s. all of the above possts are dead on:amen:

My ex-hubby was penticostal. According to them, speaking in tongues means you’re saved. Not speaking in tongues means you aren’t, because speaking in tongues is how you “prove” you are filled with the HS. Not being filled with the HS means you aren’t saved. Why do they use this as “proof”? Because of the two instances of “speaking in tongues” in the book of Acts. The first one was when the apostles were “filled with the HS” on the day of penticost. Of course, these were NOT “unknown tongues.” The tongues they spoke were understood by the people hearing them.

The only other time this is mentioned is when the first gentiles recieved the HS. The penticostal church says that this shows that, if we are “baptized in the HS,” then we will speak in tongues. But that ignores all the other gifts of the HS. Nowhere in scripture says it is a necessity to speak in tongues. In fact, scripture tends to downplay tongues. They aren’t necessary. Speaking in tongues has been taken out of context by the penticostal who say it is necessary.

[quote=Crazystar1585]This may seem like a silly question but…
How do we know we are filled with the Holy Spirit?

I am being told by some protestant friends(United Pentecostal) that we as Catholics cannot prove we are filled with the Holy Spirit because we do not ALL speak in tongues.
I understand that speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit and definitly serves as proof. But is it the only proof? And is it right that everyone should have to do it?
From my understanding, they believe that everyone must recieve the Holy Ghost by speaking in tongues before they are baptized.
This just doesn’t sound right to me and my apologetic skills are still rusty so I need help!
Thanks
[/quote]

My wife is Pentecostal. Even in their own congregations, not every one has the give of glossolalia, although there is strong peer pressure to both be “slain in the spirit” and exhibit glossolalia.

[quote=Church Militant]This is an unscriptural position that they take. There are many signs of the fullness of the Holy Spirit and the fact is that if you will attend their services, (which I do not recommend) you will find that they violate the scriptural mandates concerning speaking in tongues by allowing disorder in their services and speaking and praying in tongues aloud without it being clearly interpreted. 1st Corinthians speaks to this in particular since that church had this problem too (Both letters to the Corinthians are worth reading for context)

In fact, it is entirely possible for tongues to be not from the Holy Spirit at all, but from the devil, particularly where there is disorder and disobedience to the scriptures like that. I speak as one who spent many years in the Assembly of God (was a deacon there) and knows what I’m talking about.
Pax tecum,
[/quote]

Excellent post Church MIlitant. I thought as soon as I saw the question that the practive violates Scripture. Here’s 1 Corinthians 14:

26 So what is to be done, brothers? When you assemble, one has a psalm, another an instruction, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Everything should be done for building up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let it be two or at most three, and each in turn, and one should interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, the person should keep silent in the church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others discern. 30 But if a revelation is given to another person sitting there, the first one should be silent.

And a couple of verses later:

37 If anyone thinks that he is a prophet or a spiritual person, he should recognize that what I am writing to you is a commandment of the Lord. 38 If anyone does not acknowledge this, he is not acknowledged. 39 So, (my) brothers, strive eagerly to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues, **40 but everything must be done properly and in order. **

Hope this helps. Thanks and God Bless.

Thank you to all who have replied.
I have found that most of my discussions/debates with my UPC friends have only led me to become a stronger Catholic.
It is pretty safe to say that I won’t be attending any more of their services. (I have visited a few with my boyfriend) And I never felt comfortable amongst all of the disorder.
I’ll still remain friends with them of course…it’s good apologetic practice!:smiley:

I have read 1st Corinthians and found it very helpful in context. However, Pentecostals think of ‘speaking in tongues’ and the ‘gift of tongues’ as 2 different things. I’m still a little confused about that part. Are there 2 different types or do they just take this verse way out of context?

A quote from the Doctrine section of upci.org

[font=Arial][size=2]Some people quote I Corinthians 12:30 in an attempt to prove that not all speak in tongues when they are filled with the Spirit: “Do all speak with tongues?” However, this verse refers to the gift

of tongues, that is, speaking a public message in tongues to be interpreted for the congregation, which is a spiritual gift that a person may exercise subsequent to the infilling of the Spirit. Though both tongues as the inital evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and tongues as a later spiritual gift are the same in essence, they are different in administration and operation. For example, the regulations regarding the gift of tongues in I Corinthians 14:27-28 did not apply to the conversion accounts in Acts, where many people spoke in tongues simultaneously, without interpretation, as the sign of being filled with the Spirit.

Thanks again and God Bless[/size][/font]

NAB Acts:2:4 to13 explains the true meaning of “tongues”

The Apostles were given the gift of “tongues” or different languages to be able to proclaim the Gospel to many other lands and peoples.
They who were Galileans were now able to communicate with;

“Parthians, Medes, Elamites, inhibitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts near Cyrene as well as travlers from Rome.”

What good would the gift have been if none of these other peoples coulnd understand what the Apostles were saying? But they did understand and were amazed because these men were speaking in languages they themselves spoke and understood.

Were one given the gift today, I imagine he would find that he now was able to converse in another understandable language to proclaim the gospel to those who’ve not yet heard it or, perhaps understand it.

[quote=catsrus]NAB Acts:2:4 to13 explains the true meaning of “tongues”

The Apostles were given the gift of “tongues” or different languages to be able to proclaim the Gospel to many other lands and peoples.
They who were Galileans were now able to communicate with;

“Parthians, Medes, Elamites, inhibitants of Mesopotamia, Judea, Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts near Cyrene as well as travlers from Rome.”

What good would the gift have been if none of these other peoples coulnd understand what the Apostles were saying? But they did understand and were amazed because these men were speaking in languages they themselves spoke and understood.

Were one given the gift today, I imagine he would find that he now was able to converse in another understandable language to proclaim the gospel to those who’ve not yet heard it or, perhaps understand it.
[/quote]

Maybe, but it would not make sense since the the verses I pasted above from 1 Corinthians 14 talk about the need or gift of interpretation. You thoughts??? Thanks and God Bless.

I’m wondering if all this pressure to “prove” that you’re saved doesn’t lead to some people faking it…seriously, could you imagine standing around while every one else is spirit filled…well the human ego would definately kick in and you’d set out to prove that you too have the Holy Spirit. That’s sooo unfair, because God gives different gifts…not everyone receives that particular one.

[quote=Lillith]I’m wondering if all this pressure to “prove” that you’re saved doesn’t lead to some people faking it…seriously, could you imagine standing around while every one else is spirit filled…well the human ego would definately kick in and you’d set out to prove that you too have the Holy Spirit. That’s sooo unfair, because God gives different gifts…not everyone receives that particular one.
[/quote]

It means then that they pressure you, (and they do) to be like them. I know for a fact that there are those who will fake it rather than appear “less spiritual” than their neighbors in the pews around them. This gets into the pharisaical aspect of public prayer. I like the fact that I don’t have to worry about what anyone else thinks at Mass and that I can focus completely upon my Lord and my God .

One question: If such a display is not from God, then there are only two other places that the NT says that it comes from.
One sincerely hopes that what one encounters is merely from “the flesh”.
Pax vobiscum,

originally posted by Slinky1882
Maybe, but it would not make sense since the the verses I pasted above from 1 Corinthians 14 talk about the need or gift of interpretation. You thoughts??? Thanks and God Bless.

Okay, say I’m sitting in a room full of Frenchmen. My gift is the language (tongue) of German. I need someone to interpret what I am saying. If there is no one there who can understand what I am saying, I must be silent and speak only to myself and to God. What good will it do for me to continue to speak when no one there can understand me?
In this senario, let the French speak for the French, properly and in order.

1 Corinthians must mesh with the gift as it is described in Acts. Why would The Holy Spirit give a gift that is not useful to spread the Word which was the mission given to the Apostles? The gift and what it means is spelled out in Acts 2.

I wonder if they get a lot of suicides by folks who don’t happen to get the Spirit’s gift of tongues.

IF I believed that and I didn’t start babling or couldn’t understand what all the other mumbo jumbo was going on, I’d get awfully depressed. That’s like getting the message, guess what ?, you’re the only one going to H*ll !!! everyone else is saved… how depressing and how embarassing is that !!!

I personally believe that “Speaking in tongues” is a misnomer for the gift. I honestly believe it should be called the “gift of hearing”

Acts 2:5-13

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians–we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

Scripture doesn’t say the Apostles were speaking in different languages, but it does say the people heard their own language.

So I believe that the gift of the Holy Spirit is all who hear the person talking will hear it in their own language, NOT that the language of the person speaking will change.

[quote=wcknight]I wonder if they get a lot of suicides by folks who don’t happen to get the Spirit’s gift of tongues.

IF I believed that and I didn’t start babling or couldn’t understand what all the other mumbo jumbo was going on, I’d get awfully depressed. That’s like getting the message, guess what ?, you’re the only one going to H*ll !!! everyone else is saved… how depressing and how embarassing is that !!!
[/quote]

You know truth is stranger than fiction. Like I posted earlier, I was brought up in the UPC. Due to the influence of my Mothers family. Most of my Maternal relatives are UPC, or non affiliated Independent “Oneness” Churches. So believe you me, I have seen quitw A lot before my conversion to the Catholic Church. I do recall one suicide due to this poor soul not being able to “feel” the Spirit and speak in tongues. Depression was rampant. Example: Say “Brother X” goes to service on Sunday night. He does not “feel” the Spirit does not shout and speak in tongues. For the rest of the week “Brother X” is filled with doubt and soul searching.

Many people are addicted to the emotional high they recieve in Church. They then become depressed when they do not experience what they think is the Holy Spirit.

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