Spirit of Allah


#1

Hello all :wave:

Here is my question to Muslims about the Holy Spirit. It is a general response that the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God is an angel, mostly Gabriel (Jibreel). But who is Allah referring to in this verse?

“Go, O my sons, and ascertain concerning Joseph and his brother, and despair not the Spirit of Allah [Ruh-Allah]” (Surah 12:87).

surely Allah is not saying that believers must not despair of Jibreel so what is Allah’s Ruh or Rawh here?

NB. please bear in mind that some English translations are not faithful to the original arabic because Ruh Allah (Spirit of Allah) is translated to " soothing mercy" or “grace” or “solace” in other translations and all arabic speakers know this is not the case because these words have clear equivalents found elsewhere in the Quran.

Thank you :tiphat:


#2

Welcome back InJesus :wave:


#3

:bounce: :love: missed you all :grouphug:

God bless you :signofcross:


#4

[size=]Hi

The correct meaning of the verse is as under:
‘O my sons, go ye and search for Joseph and his brother and despair not of the mercy of Allah; for none despairs of **Allah’s mercy **save the unbelieving people.’

Kindly consult any Arabic- English dictionary and find out the meaning of the root word r-w-h, r with fatha and you would get the correct meaning.

Thanks

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir[/size]


#5

How is that an ultimate truth. Assuming for the sake of argument it was true, what would make it an “ultimate truth”?


#6

Greetings. :slight_smile:

When the Qur’an says the ‘the Holy Spirit’ as given in most English translations it *is *referring to the Angel Gabriel, however this isn’t supposed to have anything to do with the Biblical ‘Holy Spirit’, the fact that the two terms are similar is just coincidence, they refer to separate things.

And actually the correct translation of ‘Ruh Al-Qudus’ is ‘Spirit of the Holiness’, not ‘The Holy Spirit’: that in Arabic would be ‘Al-Ruh Al-Qudus’, which is the term used in Arabic versions of the Bible for the Holy Spirit.

But to 12:87, the word is not ‘Ruh Allah’ but ‘*rawhi Allah’, *and Paarsurrey is correct to say that means ‘mercy of God’ not spirit (they may look similar, but it’s a totally different word). To be honest I really have no idea why Marmaduke Pickthall in his translation gives it as ‘Spirit of Allah’. He’s the only person I’ve ever seen to do so, every other translation I’ve ever looked at, including Yusuf Ali, Muhammad Asad, Hilali Khan, Ahmed Ali, Muhammad Shakir, Majid Fakhry, Sahih International, even Rashad Khalifa translate it as mercy or something similar. The only possible explanation I can think of is that Pickthall made an human error and confused one Arabic word for another similar one, because ‘rawh’ just cannot mean ‘spirit’.

Peace.


#7

Hi

Since Jesus was a truthful ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH he was not and **could not be killed on Cross **in terms of :

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.

**Hebrews 5:7 **(NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

So in case of Jesus it is an ultimate truth that he died in Kashmir a natural death among the lost tribes of house of Israel who were exiled and settled there.
Thanks


#8

#9

Kadaveri, there is no direct example in the quran that proves the Holy Spirit or Spirit of Allah or even Spirit is Gabriel.

For those, Allah has written faith upon their hearts and strengthened them with a spirit from Him." (Surah al-Mujadilah, 58:22)

here again, the spirit can’t be gabriel unless an angel is omnipresent and omnipotent. That’s why Ali says:
Whenever any one offers his heart in faith and purity to God, God accepts it, engraves that faith on the seeker’s heart, and further fortifies him with the Divine Spirit, which we can no more define adequately than we can define in human language the nature of God. (Ali, The Meaning of the Holy Quran, p. 1518)

If Ruh gives strenghth, mercy, solace, power, ecc to believers, how can you define this Ruh ?

On what do Muslims base their belief on if the Quran hasn’t established what a Ruh is or who the Ruh Qudus is? hadith? ijtihad? or this?
‘The Spirit is of the bidding of my Lord. You have been given of knowledge nothing except a little.’ S. 17:85

The whole thing is confusing, the interpretations are confusing and the Quran is not consistent regarding this so on what do you base your belief on? thx.


#10

‘Ruh Al-Qudus’ is always a reference to Gabriel, yes.

The difference between ‘Holy Spirit’ and ‘Spirit of the Holiness’ is that in the former ‘holy’ is the adjective and ‘spirit’ is the noun (i.e. the spirit that is holy). In the later ‘the Holiness’ is a title for God, so Gabriel is the spirit of **The **Holiness/God. Hope that makes sense.

Al-Ruh Al-Qudus isn’t in the Qur’an, this is the term Arabic Bibles use for the Biblical ‘Holy Spirit’, I only quoted this to demonstrate how the Qur’anic term isn’t to be confused with the Biblical one.

There is a direct reference in the Qur’an that shows the Spirit of the Holiness is Gabriel, here:

*Say: The Spirit of the Holiness has delivered it from your Lord in truth, that it may strengthen those who believe, and as guidance and good tidings for the Muslims *(16:102)

Nobody claims 58:22 or 17:85 are supposed to refer to Gabriel, neither of them say ‘Spirit of the Holiness’ anyway so there’s no reason to connect them with verses like 16:102. They only use the word ‘spirit’ and are talking about something different entirely.


#11

Be sure that if I decide to let Satan lead me astray one day by establishing a false religion and perverting the Word of God, I shall most probably say that Jesus escaped his death on the cross and lived in the house next to my apartment :smiley: (I might get a few Jews settled there by then so as to confirm my nationalistic allegations!)

I really wonder when you guys will come to embrace honesty again and stop distorting the Bible for your personal interests. Your first quotation from the OT is part of the Mosaic Law, which aims to punish false prophets. You do not seriously believe that every man killed by Jews is truly a false prophet, do you? :eek:
So according to your weird interpretation, all of the Jewish prophets whom are stated to be murdered by Jews in the Qoran were liars??? Including John the Baptist? OMG!!! (Check the verses from Mohammed’s Bible about Jews murdering Allah’s *rasuli *and nabiyyen)

The verse you took from the NT does NOT say that God saved Jesus from the CROSS, but from DEATH! These are different words and the Christian faith in Jesus’ RESURRECTION pertains to Jesus’ salvation from DEATH (meaning corruption in the tomb). I suggest reading the rest of the Letter to the Hebrews to see how the message there is perfectly relevant to the fundamental Christian tenet of the Lord’s resurrection.

I hope you will have more respect for Christian Scripture next time you put forward your claims.

Peace to you,
Angelos B.


#12

I know I’m not a moderator but… could we possibly take this crucifixion stuff to another thread? It doesn’t belong here.


#13

Like when you call Al-lah a god, and we call Jesus God.


#14

#15

The “Holy Spirit” (Rooh al-Qudus) is Jibreel (peace be upon him).

Shaykh al-Shanqeeti said: “The words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘and [We] supported him with Rooh al-Qudus’ [al-Baqarah 2:87]

refer to Jibreel according to the most sound view.
This is indicated by the words of Allah (interpretation of the meaning): ‘Which the trustworthy Rooh has brought down’ [al-Shu’ara’ 26:193] and ‘then We sent to her our Rooh’ [Maryam 19:17].”

Ibn Abi Haatim narrated from Ahmad ibn Sinaan… Abu’l-Za’raa’ told us: ‘Abd-Allaah said: Rooh al-Qudus (“the Holy Spirit”) is Jibreel, then he said: something similar was narrated from Muhammad ibn Ka’b al-Qurazi, Qutaadah, ‘Atiyah al-‘Awfi, al-Saddi and al-Rabee’ ibn Anas.

This view is supported by the above and by the report narrated by the two Shaykhs [al-Bukhaari and Muslim] with their isnaads from Abu Salamah ibn ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf, that he heard Hassaan ibn Thaabit al-Ansaari asking Abu Hurayrah to bear witness, “I ask you by Allaah, did you hear the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, ‘O Hassaan, respond on behalf of the Messenger of Allaah. O Allaah, support him with Rooh al-Qudus’?” Abu Hurayrah said, “Yes.”

(al-Tafseer al-Masboor by Dr. Hikmat Basheer, 1/192-193)

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: the majority of scholars said that this refers to Jibreel (peace be upon him), and that Allaah called him al-Rooh al-Ameen, Rooh al-Qudus and Jibreel.”

(Daqaa’iq al-Tafseer, part 1, p. 310)

He wrote an entire chapter on that and said:

Chapter on the meaning of Rooh al-Qudus:

Allaah said (interpretation of the meaning):

“O ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Remember My Favour to you and to your mother when I supported you with Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)]…”
[al-Maa’idah 5:110]

Allaah supported the Messiah (peace be upon him) with Rooh al-Qudus as He mentions in this aayah. In al-Baqarah Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And We gave ‘Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), clear signs and supported him with Rooh-ul-Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)] [al-Baqarah 2:87]

“Those Messengers! We preferred some of them to others; to some of them Allâh spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to ‘Eesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)]”[al-Baqarah 2:253]

This is not limited only to the Messiah; others were also supported in this way. (The scholars) mentioned that Dawood said, “Do not stop supporting me with Rooh al-Qudus.” And our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to Hassaan ibn Thaabit, “O Allaah, support him with Rooh al-Qudus.” According to another report: “Rooh al-Qudus will be with you so long as you are defending His Prophet.” Both versions are narrated in al-Saheeh.

According to the Christians, the “Holy Spirit” dwelt in the Disciples, and according to them the “Holy Spirit” is something experienced by all of the Prophets. But Allaah says in al-Nahl (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad) Rooh ul Qudus [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought it (the Qur’aan) down from your Lord with truth, that it may make firm and strengthen (the Faith of) those who believe, and as a guidance and glad tidings to those who have submitted (to Allaah as Muslims)”
[al-Nahl 16:102]

“Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down

Upon your heart (O Muhammad)”
[al-Shu’ara’ 26:193]

“Whoever is an enemy to Jibreel (Gabriel) (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur’aan) down to your heart”
[al-Baqarah 2:97]


#16

As far as Jesus;

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said “Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.” The words “our God” indicate that Jesus had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn’t say “Your God”. He said “our God” which includes Jesus as the creation of GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said “I do nothing of myself”? Can’t GOD do anything he wills?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said “My Father (GOD) is greater than I”?If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said “Father (GOD), into thy hands I commend my spirit”?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said “Why call me good, there is none good but One, that is GOD”?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another words) before Jesus goes through the pain of
crucifixion? Also see: Jesus’s crucifixion in Islam

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn’t reply when he was asked about the truth?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come, only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of fearing GOD in Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that he can’t do a single thing of his own initiative?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?

If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?

If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and prayed to his GOD?

The “God” Title:
How come Christians take the “God” (theos in Greek) title literally with Jesus in Isiah 9:6 and they don’t take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called Gods ?
The Prophets who were called “God” in the Bible are as follows:
Prophet Moses in Exodus 7:1
The Devil in Corinthians 4:4 (the word for God in this verse is theos in Greek, the same used for Jesus that was translated as “God”)
Multiple Prophets in Psalms 82:6
King David in Psalm 45:3
Note: The only unique title given to GOD in the Bible that was not given to others at all are Jehova, GOD, and GOD LORD. “God”, “Most Mighty” and “Almighty One” are titles that were given to Jesus, other Prophets and to Satan himself in the Bible.

Very important note: Did you know that in the languages of Arabic and Hebrew the father of the house can be called the God of the house? Jesus was the God (father or leader) of his people and their father according to Isiah 9:6. Jesus being the leader and the king, it is normal for him to be called the father of his people (Father in Isiah 9:6), and because he is their father he automatically becomes their God. My father is my God in Arabic and Hebrew.

The “Son” Title:
How come Christians take the “God’s Son” title literally with Jesus and they don’t take it literally for the rest of the prophets and people who were called the Sons of God?
In John 3:16 Jesus was called God’s only Begotten Son.
In Exodus 4:22 “Thus saith Jehova, Isreal is my son, even my firstborn.” Isreal was called God’s First Son.
In Jeremiah 31:9 “I am a father to Isreal, and Ephraim is my firstborn.” Ephraim is God’s First Son and First Born.In Psalm 2:7 “… Jehova had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.” David was called God’s Begotten Son.

Were Jesus’s Miracle’s Unique?
If Jesus is believed to be GOD because he could do miracles, he could heal leprosy, he could cause blind men to see, or raise the dead, then what about the others who performed the same miracles?

Elisha and Elijah fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (2 Kings 4:44).

Elisha told Naaman, who was a leper, to wash in the river Jordan (2 Kings 5:14) and he was healed. Elisha caused a blind man to see in (2 Kings 6:17,20).


#17

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead in (1 Kings 17:22, and 2 Kings 4:34). Even Elisha’s dead bones restored a dead body in (2 Kings 13:21).
Indeed Jesus had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines not made by GOD but by men “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Matthew 15:9)”

In Matthew 15:9 above, we see Jesus warning that Trinity (the bogus lie) will dominate, and people will take Jesus as GOD and worship him, which is a total sin according to what Jesus said !!
Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims’ Holy Scripture) states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say: ‘God is Christ the son of Mary.’ But said Christ: ‘O Children of Isreal ! worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’ "

Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them."
And also in Noble Verse 4:171 “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, …”

The Point that I am trying to prove:

Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God’s words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross .


#18

Hi
A beautiful passage written by you, which with a little variation has been adopted by me:

Ahmadi Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus is a messenger from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God’s words to his people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and Messengers of God. Ahmadi Muslims also believe that though Jesus was put on Cross but those who put him on the Cross with the intention of killing him on it never succeeded in their such intentions, nor Jesus ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross.
Thanks


#19

:confused:


#20

thank you for the explanation Jedda; however, in all your quotations, the name Jibreel is put into brackets and the commentary says “according to X or Y”. In other words, the belief that the Ruh Al-Qudus is an angel is simply an interpretation of people and not something found explicitly in the Quran or Ahadith,right?

Is it only Jibreel who brings down the revelations?

Then I swear by **the angels **who bring down the revelation…

By **those **who bring down the Reminder, S. 77:5

the interpretation of Al-Jalaleyn regarding 77:5 goes like this:

that is, [by] angels that descend with the revelation upon the prophets and messengers, casting the revelation onto the [various] communities [of mankind]

altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=8&tSoraNo=77&tAyahNo=5&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0

So Jibreel is not the only angel.

… the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years." 70:4

The angels and the Spirit descend therein, by the permission of their Lord, with all decrees 97:4

If Jibreel is that “Spirit” that descends and ascends, wouldn’t he be logically within the category of angels? then why differentiate between both if Jibreel is that Spirit?Had the Spirit been Gabriel there would be no need to distinguish him from the angels. If these ayas are talking about a different Spirit, then what is it?

Let’s see some hadith:

“Narrated Aisha: The Messenger of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) used to pronounce while bowing and prostrating himself: All Glorious, all Holy, Lord of the Angels and the Spirit.” (Sahih Muslim, Book 4, Number 0987)

and Gabriel, the Apostle of Allah is among us, **and the Holy Spirit **who has no match." (Sahih Muslim, Book 30, Number 6081)

In the Quran and these ahadith, there is a clear distinction between angels and the Spirit.

So far, on what basis is the belief that Holy Spirit is Gabriel? personal interpretations?

and what about the other Spirit that Allah sends to all believers at the same time? is it an omnipresent angel?

thank you for your time:)


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