And yet, the Real Presence has been taught by every generation of Catholics for 2000 years. Every generation, according to Jeff Cavins.
**I don’t think that’s in any sense true because for a couple of reasons:
The early church fathers, *(the ones I’ve read so far) do not hint to the notion that the “Real Presence” was to be interpreted that fashion.
The medieval church circulated a small portion of the scriptures and not everyone were priviledged to read them. (Neither did they think it through)
There were other religious groups that taught something else. (i.e. Waldensians, Paulicans, Eastern Orthodox et cetra)
**In what fashion? And how do they differ from “that fashion”?
- The medieval church circulated a small portion of the scriptures and not everyone were priviledged to read them. (Neither did they think it through)
What do you mean, they circulated “a small portion”? The only ones “privileged” to read them, were the only ones “privileged” enough to learn how to read. And who were the ones that taught them? Usually the Church.
This claim of yours seems to be misleadingly biased.
- There were other religious groups that taught something else. (i.e. Waldensians, Paulicans, Eastern Orthodox et cetra)
**Do you hold to what the Waldensians taught, or do you think they were heretics? How about the Paulicans? The Eastern Orthodox do not teach the Real Presence in the Eucharist? That’s a new one on me.
They teach the Real Presence, but they are not dogmatic about what occurs. They would prefer to let what happens remain a mystery. They are not committed, for example, to transubstantiation as opposed to consubstantiation. In fact, most of the Orthodox I’ve known would not want to define the nature of the Real Presence into any specific type of -substantiation. As far as I can tell, Orthodox really do not like the notion of transubstantiation (too Roman; too dogmatic as far as they are concerned), and if I recall this is one reason that they don’t preserve the consecrated elements in a tabernacle. But they are still very committed to the Real Presence.
then it is obvious that whoever is exposing you to the Early Church Fathers is only circulating “a small porton” for you to read (your other 2 points are so completely based in fiction rather than fact, I do not wish to dignify them by responding to them):
St. Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of St. John the Beloved Disciple of Jesus), circa 107 AD:
I have no taste for coruuptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible. Epistle to the Romans 7:3.
Take note of those who hold hererodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God…They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer becuase they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes. Epistle to the Smyrneans, 6:2- 7:1.
St. Justin Martyr, 151 AD:
We callthis food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration and is thereby living as Chri8st enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus. First Apology 66.
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