(SPLIT) Mike Gendron's "Who Holds the Keys?"

JharekCarnellan #85

You asked Why my sister and her husband would be wanting to lead people Away from / out of the Church. Well – there’s a difference between the RCC and the Church. I’ve mentioned that on some thread or another lately.

There’s an article I found and printed out… Hopefully you’ll be able to find it.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=]Who Holds The Keys?[/size][/size][/FONT][/FONT][/size][/FONT]

Please let me know that you’ve been able to find it – would like your input.

This web site is vile.

As for the article.

Proponents of the Roman Catholic tradition point to history as supporting evidence for their interpretation of the keys of the kingdom. However, most of their historical support comes from tradition dating back only the fourth century.

This is false. The keys actually occurs in the Old Testament. It didn’t begin in the 4th century Do note that it is stated without supporting proof.

Christ began to teach about it from a different perspective. He taught that it would be a mystery, invisible, and progressive.

Note that no scripture is offered to support this falsehood.

The contrast between the Catholic interpretation of the “keys of the kingdom” and the historical-grammatical interpretation is significant. One centers around the teachings of men and is based on tradition and reason, while the other centers around the Word of God and is based on His revealed will and reign.

I found this conclusion hilarious. The so called historical-grammatical interpretation ignores both history and the context of scripture. But they are correct on one thing one centers around the teaching of men(the article) the other centers around the Word of God and is based on His revealed will and reign ( the One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church) Which isn’t invisible what a strange and unbiblical idea.

My apologies to you. I thought you were being hard but I realize now you were on point.

Hate material and links to sites that promote bigotry, hatred, or prejudice toward those of any race, religion, ethnicity, culture, or nationality

No problem at all sir.

:curtsey:
Thank You

Whoops - are you female :blush:

Yes;)

Sorry about that in turn. In any case we have seen some very bad history presented in this thread. Much of it I have seen before and it is really quite sad that some of those ancient urban myths are still doing the rounds.

Crochet lady, the author of that article clearly didn’t do his homework. The “keys to the kingdom” are prefigured in Isaiah 22.

You got that right James! Mike Gendron sort of considers me a sort of Catholic nemesis because I enjoy taking his a-C propaganda apart and showing how he fulfills the warning in James 3:1.
For examples, see the following from my blog…which he hates.

[LIST]
*]Mike Gendron doesn’t like me. (Glory be to God!!!)
*]Response to Hard Questions to Ask Good Catholics (By Mike Gendron)
*]Refuting anti-Catholic tract: “Rome vs The Bible” by Mike Gendron
*] Refuting: “Is a Catholic Christian an Oxymoron?”
*] Refuting Mike Gendron’s attacks on Eucharistic Adoration
*]Refuting Mike Gendron’s tract “Are You Being Deceived?”
*]Refuting Mike Gendron’s “Do Pope Francis’s Remarks Have Prophetic Implications?”
[/LIST]
So…here we go again. It’s fascinating that people like the ones who run that site are so weak in the Word of God that they would use his stuff as a source.

Stay tuned everyone…and especially you Crochet Lady.

“To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.” John Henry Cardinal Newman

" As I have already observed, the Church, having received this preaching and this faith, although scattered throughout the whole world, yet, as if occupying but one house, carefully preserves it. She also believes these points [of doctrine] just as if she had but one soul, and one and the same heart, and she proclaims them, and teaches them, and hands them down, with perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For, although the languages of the world are dissimilar, yet the import of the tradition is one and the same. For the Churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different, nor do those in Spain, nor those in Gaul, nor those in the East, nor those in Egypt, nor those in Libya, nor those which have been established in the central regions of the world. But as the sun, that creature of God, is one and the same throughout the whole world, so also the preaching of the truth shineth everywhere, and enlightens all men that are willing to come to a knowledge of the truth. Nor will any one of the rulers in the Churches, however highly gifted he may be in point of eloquence, teach doctrines different from these (for no one is greater than the Master); nor, on the other hand, will he who is deficient in power of expression inflict injury on the tradition. For the faith being ever one and the same, neither does one who is able at great length to discourse regarding it, make any addition to it, nor does one, who can say but little diminish it."-St. Irenaues, Against Heresies, book I, chpt 10

" Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say, ] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere." book 3, chpt 3

"Chapter IV.-The Truth is to Be Found Nowhere Else But in the Catholic Church, the Sole Depository of Apostolical Doctrine. Heresies are of Recent Formation, and Cannot Trace Their Origin Up to the Apostles.

  1. Since therefore we have such proofs, it is not necessary to seek the truth among others which it is easy to obtain from the Church; since the apostles, like a rich man [depositing his money] in a bank, lodged in her hands most copiously all things pertaining to the truth: so that every man, whosoever will, can draw from her the water of life. For she is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account are we bound to avoid them, but to make choice of the thing pertaining to the Church with the utmost diligence, and to lay hold of the tradition of the truth. For how stands the case? Suppose there arise a dispute relative to some important question among us, should we not have recourse to the most ancient Churches with which the apostles held constant intercourse, and learn from them what is certain and clear in regard to the present question? For how should it be if the apostles themselves had not left us writings? Would it not be necessary, [in that case,] to follow the course of the tradition which they handed down to those to whom they did commit the Churches?"-Against Heresies, book 3, chpt 4.

“As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is with the chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built! This is the house where alone the paschal lamb can be rightly eaten. This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails.” -St. Jerome, letters, no. 15

**Who Holds the Keys? **

Written by Mike Gendron.
Two thousand years ago Jesus said to Peter, “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loose in heaven.” This reference to the “keys of the kingdom” is found only in Matthew 16:19, however the authority to “bind and loose” is given to all the disciples in Matthew 18:18. Many biblical scholars believe the “keys” are symbols representing the authority to govern and minister theocratic principles on earth. However, the interpretation of this verse has been the subject of debate for hundreds of years.
Indeed they have Mike. Basically the last 500 years or so since a number of errant teachers arose and sought to put themselves forth as the new and modern interpreters of scripture.

Within the Roman Catholic tradition, doctrines have developed that give the papacy authority to delegate the power to forgive or retain sins through a sacramental system of penance and absolution. The Catholic Encyclopedia states, “The power to confer or withhold forgiveness might well be viewed as the opening and shutting of the gates of heaven.” It was used both as “admission to” as well as “excommunication from” the kingdom. The power to “bind and loose” also gives the Popes authority to pronounce doctrinal judgments, making disciplinary decisions in the Church and even canonize saints. This authority and power prescribes what and who Catholics must believe and how and when they must worship.

No knowledgeable Catholic will state that Christian doctrines do not develop because we know that that has been the case from the New Testament era on. The Trinity is a good example, since that term is nowhere found in scripture and yet it is universally used among Christians to express the doctrines that pertain to Almighty God.
However, Gendron here makes a serious error in his teaching because he states that these passages are the only ones that are used to support the Catholic position and that is completely untrue. He also conspicuously fails to note that, along with the above passages, we also have clear scripture that plainly tells us what the pillar and bulwark of the truth is. Note the following: (1st Timothy 3:15) ***“if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” ***
Now we already know that Gendron is an adherent of the unscriptural fundamental doctrinal error of Sola Scriptura, so he naturally ascribes all [FONT=Georgia]ultimate authority to the Bible, in spite of the glaring fact that there is no passage of scripture where the Bible lays claim to any such authority. (Aside: See Does the Bible teach that everything that we believe and practice has to be found in its pages? )
(Cont’d)
[/FONT]

Even so, along with the passages from Matthew that he has cited and the one I have offered above, we can see what the Bible actually says about Christian authority. I believe the fact that none of aligns with Gendron’s teaching should cause one some serious pause.

The Vatican teaches that Peter’s keys have been handed down to his successors throughout the centuries. This has given credence to the papacy to govern the kingdom of God, which they believe, is the Roman Catholic Church. As a result, Peter and his successors are said to have special spiritual powers as Christ’s representative on earth.

Pretty much correct, except that as we have seen, this belief is plainly based upon the Word of God and even for someone crippled by Sola Scriptura, it becomes evident that the Catholic teaching is simply based upon God’s Word and not just a man-made teaching of men. Where then, does that put Gendron’s teaching?

Proponents of the Roman Catholic tradition point to history as supporting evidence for their interpretation of the keys of the kingdom. However, most of their historical support comes from tradition dating back only the fourth century.

This is obviously not true; since I have already shown that it predates that all the way back to the New Testament itself. There may well have been discussion and development of the doctrine in the 4th century (though Gendron seems unwilling or unable to offer any historical documentation, which one would think he would do if such existed) but again, such discussion goes hand in hand with developing doctrines, even as the Trinity was also much discussed at that time in the early church.

For extensive discussion and documentation on this point, I offer two excellent articles from Catholic Answers that do indeed offer that early church documentation.
· The Authority of the Pope: Part I
· The Authority of the Pope: Part II
(Cont’d)

An accurate historical and grammatical interpretation must consider the use of terms at the time of the writing of the original text. The concept of the kingdom and the keys must be understood from their usage in the first century. Peter and the disciples understood the kingdom to be the visible rule of Christ over the earth, not the spiritual rule of Christ over His invisible church. The king would rule from Jerusalem, free Israel from political bondage and destroy her enemies. After Israel rejected the offer of the kingdom, Christ began to teach about it from a different perspective. He taught that it would be a mystery, invisible, and progressive. It would be both present and future and could be entered only by regeneration. The kingdom would not be limited to the church, but would work through the church to proclaim the good news of God’s redemptive rule.

Certainly this was the case early on in the apostle’s experience that was clearly dispelled by the time we reach the 16th chapter of Matthew’s Gospel and there’s no way that a reader can hold Gendron’s position in light of the context of the rest of that gospel, not to mention similar passages from the same time period in the other gospels. I urge everyone to read these chapters for themselves.

After the events of Pentecost, Christ’s teaching and the indwelling Holy Spirit, gave the disciples a clearer understanding of this kingdom. The real authority of the keys given by Christ is ultimately in the revelation of God’s principles from the Scriptures for His theocratic kingdom. Men of God were able to discern the correctness of doctrine and practice using the whole counsel of God (Acts 17:11).

This “Berean defense” is often put forth by Sola Scriptura adherents, but the fact is that not all those who followed that approach were convinced and one can see this from the context of verses 10 and 12. Moreover, in the context of the rest of the entire Word of God and especially the New Testament, again, we see that nowhere does the Bible lay claim to any such authority.

Catholic Answers has a very good article that deals with this.
Not by Scripture Alone

An example of this is found in Luke 11:52, where Jesus denounces the Pharisees for misrepresenting God and the Scriptures with a religion of their own making. As a result they were shutting the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”

This is just Gendron’s usual attempt to take an irrelevant passage of scripture and infer that it somehow applies to the Catholic faith, which is his whole rai·son d’être . Yet does it apply, when one studies the context of the New Testament and the passages he sets forth? The fact is that it does not, especially since we can see that the Catholic Church teaches the scriptural doctrine, while Gendron offers something man made.

(Cont’d)

The ultimate power to open and close the gates of heaven is the Gospel, which “is the power of God for the salvation of all who believe” (Romans 1:16). Peter’s first proclamation of the Gospel on the Day of Pentecost, in Acts chapter 2, opened the door of the kingdom to thousands. Since then, the disciples, and all Christians who have succeeded them, have been opening and closing the doors of the kingdom with the Gospel. Those who hear it and believe it are forgiven (loosed) of their sin and enter the kingdom, while those who reject the Gospel remain unforgiven (bound) of their sins and can not enter the kingdom (John 3:36).

At first, one might be willing to accept this paragraph without comment, but there is simply far too much “Gendron misinterpretation” there to allow us to do that.

No faithful Catholic would deny what the scriptures he cites say, but Gendron’s misinterpretation flies in the face of the “great commission” passage, also in Matthew 28, where it plainly mandates; [FONT=Palatino Linotype]19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."[/FONT]

What would be the point of such a mandate if the church was not the one opening and closing the gates to the kingdom that they have been given the keys to? Obviously Gendron is wrong in his interpretation because we also have the New Testament plainly telling us in [FONT=Palatino Linotype]Romans 10: 14] But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15] And how can men preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach good news!” Gendron has sought to diminish the very scriptural role of the church in the spread of the gospel and to mislead people from seeing that the New Testament supports the Catholic Church, the church founded by Our Blessed lord Jesus Christ, as the authority ordained by Christ Himself.[/FONT]

The contrast between the Catholic interpretation of the “keys of the kingdom” and the historical-grammatical interpretation is significant. One centers around the teachings of men and is based on tradition and reason, while the other centers around the Word of God and is based on His revealed will and reign.

This of course is totally untrue and Gendron is indeed the one who has plainly denied the factual historical and grammatical interpretation of these passages of scripture and set forth here his own flawed human reasoning and man-made tradition. One need only look at the facts and decide for oneself.

As a former Protestant I find some of these attacks on the Catholic Church rather humorous. I can remember fellow protestants talking as if the Pope was a Howard Hughs type sitting deep in the catacombs in his diaper scribbling new rules to be followed on his snot rags. Those who stand against the Catholic Church seem to primarily have issues with the Church’s authority. They rebel and refuse to accept truth even when it is right before their eyes.

Rock on, Church Militant! Great posts! :smiley:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=KCsxM45YwDk

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