SSPX statement

The SSPX “sees a gleam of hope” with the election of Bendedict XVI. I don’t think BXVI can kowtow (nor should he) to the SSPX, but I do hope and pray for a resolution.

sspx.org/Superior%20Generals%20Ltrs/on_the_election_of_pope_benedict_xvi.htm

I can’t off hand, think of a better person to champion and seize ecumenical opportunities than Benedict XVI…

I would not be surpirsed if he is the very guy to succeed in bringing those sheep back to Rome…

yep, the perfect shepherd!

[quote=cursillo255]The SSPX “sees a gleam of hope” with the election of Bendedict XVI. I don’t think BXVI can kowtow (nor should he) to the SSPX, but I do hope and pray for a resolution.

sspx.org/Superior%20Generals%20Ltrs/on_the_election_of_pope_benedict_xvi.htm
[/quote]

The SSPX aren’t going to budge as far as I could tell when Bishop Williamson was in town. Then again, Bishop Williamson is probably the most outspoken of the four bishops which could be a good thing or bad thing at times as I have a similar style and know.

Remember, it was Cardinal Ratzinger who negotiated with Archbishop Lefebvre the first time around. Perhaps he can work some magic?

An Italian press agency stated that Pope Benedict indirectly hinted at making a deal with le Society during his speach;

agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200504211325-1082-RT1-CRO-0-NF11&page=0&id=agionline-eng.oggitalia

People say “cowtowing” but the Vatican slowly but surely has been giving in to the opposition of not only the Society but the Tridentine Mass (thank God).

I hope and pray that our separated bretheren are once again brought back into the Church.

It would be very good, we´ll see

[quote=dumspirospero]I hope and pray that our separated bretheren are once again brought back into the Church.
[/quote]

I am of mixed mind on this.

In theory it seems very good. However, I ran into one of these LeFebvrists. A neighbour of mine put me in touch with an Archbishop and I asked the AB some questions. This guy was all over the map! I saw straight off that the seeds he was sowing were the seeds of confusion. He would never answer a direct question about what exactly the LeFebvre group had done to get themselves excommunicated.

I suspect that, like Luther, it wasn’t a question of doctrine but of breach of community which led to their demise. I don’t know if I want such confusing and treacherous people back. We have enough problems of our own.

Can someone enlighten me? A link or a brief explanation of who the Society of Saint Pius X and Luther are, perhaps.

It’s a long story. To see the SSPX point of view;

sspx.org/articles_index.htm

[quote=Ani Ibi]I am of mixed mind on this.

In theory it seems very good. However, I ran into one of these LeFebvrists. A neighbour of mine put me in touch with an Archbishop and I asked the AB some questions. This guy was all over the map! I saw straight off that the seeds he was sowing were the seeds of confusion. He would never answer a direct question about what exactly the LeFebvre group had done to get themselves excommunicated.

I suspect that, like Luther, it wasn’t a question of doctrine but of breach of community which led to their demise. I don’t know if I want such confusing and treacherous people back. We have enough problems of our own.
[/quote]

Luther denied so many Catholic truths. Archbishop Lefebvre never did. Apples and oranges to compare the two.

[font=Verdana]I pray that SSPX realizes that our true enemy is secularism and reverts.[/font]

This should tell you how they think:

The Society of Saint Pius X, founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, applauds the fight undertaken by Karol Wojtyla for the protection of life and his efforts in the moral sphere. Nonetheless, it feels it a duty to repeat that it has always disapproved of the indefatigable efforts of Pope John Paul II towards ecumenism, efforts which have led to a weakening of the Faith and of the defence of Truth.
Link to page

These guys are a bunch of dogs. Dont worry about them. They act as if its in their hands to make a difference in the world, they are a bunch of doublespeak dogs.

[quote=EddieArent]Luther denied so many Catholic truths. Archbishop Lefebvre never did. Apples and oranges to compare the two.
[/quote]

I distinctly said that I was not comparing them on doctrinal issues. I was comparing them with breach of community. And that is exactly the sense I got from the Lefebvrists: that it didn’t matter to them what differences they had with us over doctrine, they were just bound and determined to throw us over. That was the same with Luther. Sure he was clever enough to have pretexts in the form of doctrinal differences. He was a brilliant man. But the real problem was his disdain for human relationships – his rudeness, his arrogance, his disobedience to the point of fomenting rebellion in very dangerous times – the collateral damage he imposed because he was determined to go his own way. Not apples and oranges. Apple struedel and seconds.

[quote=Catholic Dude]This should tell you how they think:

These guys are a bunch of dogs. Dont worry about them. They act as if its in their hands to make a difference in the world, they are a bunch of doublespeak dogs.
[/quote]

SO, MY WIFE IS A DBLSPEEK DOG! I’LL LET HER KNOW YOUR INFALLIBLE DECISION.
And here I thought DOUBLE-SPEEK was the solid theological virtue of VATII Church !

BTW:
It’s in your hands also, like it or not.

[quote=TNT]SO, MY WIFE IS A DBLSPEEK DOG! I’LL LET HER KNOW YOUR INFALLIBLE DECISION.
And here I thought DOUBLE-SPEEK was the solid theological virtue of VATII Church !
[/quote]

TNT is right. Let’s not name-call. The mod will close this thread down. This thread has a good topic so let’s be nice to each other and continue this discussion. Perhaps TNT would like to give us more information about the Lefebvrists.

I am optimistic…I am no way close to the SSPX’ers on a lot of issues…especially the ones that have separated them from us…but on others such as the love of tradition and protecting our faith from being watered down with protestantism…I am all for. I am hoping we can all find a common ground and restore their status to full communion in the Church…I find this more pressing than trying to bring Lutherans and Baptist into full communion…heck, there are only a handful of differences separating us from one another…as opposed to the protestants which will takes years, if not centuries to mend…I say Charity starts at home first.

OK, dum, help me. What’s on the table so that I can know?

[quote=TNT]SO, MY WIFE IS A DBLSPEEK DOG! I’LL LET HER KNOW YOUR INFALLIBLE DECISION.
And here I thought DOUBLE-SPEEK was the solid theological virtue of VATII Church !

[/quote]

Woa! Did I say your wife was a doublespeaking dog? No.

I looked all over their site evey now and then and I see right through their position. On their page there are passages that say how great JPII was and how they pray for him and all that, but as I looked around the page they started saying all this backstabbing comments about him, everything from teaching errors to hinting at doing evil deeds. That is where the doublespeak comes from.

[quote=Catholic Dude]they started saying all this backstabbing comments about him, everything from teaching errors to hinting at doing evil deeds. That is where the doublespeak comes from.
[/quote]

I noticed that too CD. That’s why I drew the comparison with Luther.

In any case, what is on the table so I will know if I meet anyone from the Lefebvrists?

I’ll tell you what I agree with regarding SSPX…everything else they stand for, that I haven’t listed, I am against.

  1. I share their love for tradition
  2. I share their belief in the TLM being available to all Catholics
  3. I share their belief that ecumenism is great…but it shouldn’t be stressed to the point it waters down our faith.
  4. I share their reverence, love, and respect for the Mass…which is not exclusive to just traditionalists I must add…I have seen the same reverence, etc. at a Novus Ordo.
  5. I try to follow all the traditional fasting practices, etc. before Mass…Fridays during the year…and Lenten fasting/abstaining

etc…beyond that…they are in a league of their own. I accept VII and our Holy Father and submit to his authority entirely…I just wish the stupid asenide things that are stumbling blocks for these guys will be knocked out of the way and allow them to return to full communion with the Holy See.

[quote=Ani Ibi]OK, dum, help me. What’s on the table so that I can know?
[/quote]

[quote=Ani Ibi]TNT is right. Let’s not name-call. The mod will close this thread down. This thread has a good topic so let’s be nice to each other and continue this discussion. Perhaps TNT would like to give us more information about the Lefebvrists.
[/quote]

For the sake of convenience and respect for the thread’s title I’ll stick with SSPX.

To put it succinctly yet remain accurate, the resolve of the SSPX is the Encyclical Mortalium Amimos and supporting Encyclicals, vs the heresy of modernist Ecumenism which they believe has infected the blood stream of the Churchmen.
.
Modern Ecumenism is the underlying cause of all the changes in the Church since VATII. There can be unlimited excuses for any one of the changes but they all have their “ROCK” in Modern Ecumenism. They believe that some of those changes in preaching or practice has materially compromised the Catholic Faith in dogma or Tradition or both
And, after all, Ecumenism implies a compromise by one or both parties.
Wherein they define Ecumenism as:
The destruction of internal unity in the false hope of external unity.
(Ok, actually, that’s one of my bullseye definitions.)

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