SSPX'ers and Lefebvrists are excommunicated it appears

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=1224

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[right]September 1981, Volume IV, Number 9

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****Fr. Carl Pulvermacher

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[left]Q. They tell me it is a mortal sin to attend the Latin Mass, and besides it does not fulfill my Sunday obligation. M.P., Oakland, CA.
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[left]A.“They” (priests and bishops?) do say that, even though by the new theology of Vatican II mortal sin has been made all but impossible. And some say Sunday Obligation can be fulfilled even with a Protestant service. Now why should they be so upset when it comes to the practice of going to the traditional Mass? The Tridentine Mass has not been officially abrogated, except in the biased minds of some of our spiritually blind bishops. They think we Catholic people don’t know any better . . . that we just find change hard. God and the teachings of His Church have always been unchanging. If they say the New Mass doesn’t change a thing, why should they be upset if some want to remain with it, since they say there was no change in the first place? Oh! but there was a change! The New Mass is essentially different from the old. The New is Protestant; the Old is Catholic! A Catholic does not satisfy his Sunday obligation by going to a Protestant service. Going to a Protestant service is a mortal sin and it does not fulfill your Sunday obligation.
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[left]The Angelus is the mouthpiece of the SSPX. Ergo, the sspx is heretical and schismatic, no?[/left]

The sspx claims only it can preserve Tradition. Yeah, right. FR. Carl Pulvermacher, the SSPX expert, who said the Pauline Rite does not satisfy the Sunday Obligation is now a Pope.

truecatholic.org/pope/sandalprints.htm

The SSPX schism itself schismed into the SSPV. How long before ssp2.5 comes along?

SSPX masses do fulfill your Sunday obligation. It would be a sin to go to their masses only if you did so out of a desire to adhere to their schism. If you did so because you didn’t want to step on Jesus (Communion in the hand creates crumbs which subsequently get stepped on) it would not be a sin. But I wouldn’t even go for that reason unless there were no indult or eastern rite parishes in my vicinity.

Yes, the SSPX Masses do fulfill your obligation and they are valid Masses, though not licit. I am one of those Traditionalists who believes that they are in the wrong.

I would not go to an SSPX Mass because I think it would carry grave dangers for me, but for some it may be possible to go and not imbibe a schismatic mentality.

I would like to see the constant rhetorical war between the SSPX and others come to an end. Traditionalists, Conservatives, SSPXers, all need to reach out to each other. I hope and pray that the SSPX will reconcile with the Holy Father. With that accomplished, they could do much good for the Church, just as the FSSP is doing.
Peace be with you,
Ryan

[quote=Catholicguy]The sspx claims only it can preserve Tradition. Yeah, right. FR. Carl Pulvermacher, the SSPX expert, who said the Pauline Rite does not satisfy the Sunday Obligation is now a Pope.
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Not quite. Fr. Carl P. is still SSPX, to the best of my knowledge. His brother, Fr. Lucian P, is the antipope. I have no idea if they are still on speaking terms…

karen marie

Is he the guy who styles himself Pope Pius XIII?

Pope Pius XIII, Fr. Lucian Pulvermacher, has his web page here.

Pope Michael (web page here), on the other hand, lives in Delia, Kansas.

Oh, what ant-popes of the past could have done with the Internet.

JimG

One has to ask themselves whether these guys are mentally stable. Where do they think they get their authority?

It isn’t even worth talking about. I hope no one actually follows them. Pray for any poor souls who do.
Cleave to the See of Peter!
Blessings,
Ryan

You’re right. Thanks for pointing out my error

[quote=Hananiah]SSPX masses do fulfill your Sunday obligation. It would be a sin to go to their masses only if you did so out of a desire to adhere to their schism. If you did so because you didn’t want to step on Jesus (Communion in the hand creates crumbs which subsequently get stepped on) it would not be a sin. But I wouldn’t even go for that reason unless there were no indult or eastern rite parishes in my vicinity.
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I don’t go to SSPX Masses " to adhere to a schism. " I go because God " called " me to the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass… the " Marriage Feast of the Lamb. " I go because it is the Mass of the Angels the " Mass of all time " I go because it is the Mass that bears the 4 marks of authenticity… One , Holy , Apostolic, Catholic Mass. It is impossible that God would " cancel or make " null and void " the True Mass. I go, because if I didn’t …I would be in danger of loosing my immortal soul. Thank you for reading this. Peace be to you.

[quote=The Dead Bishop]I don’t go to SSPX Masses " to adhere to a schism. " I go because God " called " me to the Holy Sacrafice of the Mass… the " Marriage Feast of the Lamb. " I go because it is the Mass of the Angels the " Mass of all time " I go because it is the Mass that bears the 4 marks of authenticity… One , Holy , Apostolic, Catholic Mass. It is impossible that God would " cancel or make " null and void " the True Mass. I go, because if I didn’t …I would be in danger of loosing my immortal soul. Thank you for reading this. Peace be to you.
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The same was true of the Anglican church for years, except for the one thing that is missing in this case, the part about “One”.

[quote=pnewton]The same was true of the Anglican church for years, except for the one thing that is missing in this case, the part about “One”.
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It’s truely a puzzler. Then I remember when Saint Paul resisted Saint Peter “to his face” They weren’t " one " then either.

Disagreement is not schism. Or do you consider St. Paul schismatic at that time?

[quote=pnewton]Disagreement is not schism. Or do you consider St. Paul schismatic at that time?
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Thanks for making my point so eloquently…the SSPX disagrees with the Pope, on a few issues.

No, they are in schism. It is up to the Holy See to decide who is and who isn’t is in communion with them.

I have no idea why reconcilliation isn’t taking place. Far be it for someone like me to point fingers. But I came into the church to be under the authority of Jesus and his earthly Vicar. I just do not understand why anyone who knew of this authority would not wish to be under it. Better to be the lowest priest in the true church than the head of your own schismatic group.

[quote=pnewton]No, they are in schism. It is up to the Holy See to decide who is and who isn’t is in communion with them.

I have no idea why reconcilliation isn’t taking place. Far be it for someone like me to point fingers. But I came into the church to be under the authority of Jesus and his earthly Vicar. I just do not understand why anyone who knew of this authority would not wish to be under it. Better to be the lowest priest in the true church than the head of your own schismatic group.
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The " reconcilliation " is a disagreement over which direction the Church should go in these times, to keep faithful Catholics faithful and to hopefully gain a greater following of souls for our Lord.If you believe the SSPX is is schism, then that’s your free choice to do so. I know they are not in schism, ( and so do the " SSPXers". ) If you read up on what Pope SAINT Pius V says on the Tridentine Mass ( to be the Mass of all time… to the end of the world ) and what Pope SAINT Pius X says backing this up, then TWO POPES both SAINTS seem to insist on it to a point of grave necessity for the continuation of the Faith in Catholic souls.It would be a sin to follow the Pope if we know He is in error. Peace be to you.

How is the Tridentine mass a matter of faith and not just a matter of practice?

[quote=The Dead Bishop]It would be a sin to follow the Pope if we know He is in error. Peace be to you.
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I wonder if that is what Martin Luther also used as an excuse? Except instead of interpreting the Bible for yourselves, it is the Bible and Tradition that you interpret as you wish.

[quote=mjdonnelly]How is the Tridentine mass a matter of faith and not just a matter of practice?
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It seems to me that it’s both. One must have faith before one can put into " action " the fruits of faith into their activities. We operate or act according to our beliefs ( and restraint is a belief ). How would we know what to " practice " without the faith to do so?

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