St. Brigid a lesbian?


#1

I'm talking with someone online who makes this claim and says that the Church got rid of the evidence. She also claims that the Church allowed gay marriage for the first 500 years. Where is this coming from?


#2

Either a troll or a conspiracy theorist.


#3

I don’t really know anything about St. Brigid so I can’t comment on that.

But I was listening to ETWN one day and this woman was talking about a blessing she and a friend of hers received. I can’t remember if it was supposed to make them sisters or was just sort of a blessing of their friendship but I think she said it used to be really common in the early church and that some people confuse it for marriage.


#4

Well that's just illogical, if Church got rid of the evidence, then how does she know that Saint Brigid was gay? Obviously it is a made up fact, by people who are excellent at revisionist and made up history.


#5

I'm not sure why it would even matter. Some people are just too wrapped up in who they sleep with as their identity. Help them find the saint of another hobby of theirs that doesn't require unfounded conjecture to make them fit, hopefully that will make them feel better.


#6

[quote="LaSainte, post:1, topic:321164"]
I'm talking with someone online who makes this claim and says that the Church got rid of the evidence.

[/quote]

Right. Does she have any proof for this? Otherwise its good ol' calumny :shrug: And remember that having a homosexual attraction does not mean one cannot become a saint.

[quote="LaSainte, post:1, topic:321164"]
She also claims that the Church allowed gay marriage for the first 500 years.

[/quote]

Ok, now I get it, she was trying to make an April 1st joke.


#7

[quote="R_C, post:6, topic:321164"]
Right. Does she have any proof for this? Otherwise its good ol' calumny :shrug:

Ok, now I get it, she was trying to make an April 1st joke.

[/quote]

She's dead serious. She wrote some article on a gay website about how Dolan is against homosexuality (in other shocking news, water is wet!).

lezgetreal.com/2013/03/cardinal-dolan-wants-to-make-gays-welcome-wont-bend-on-marriage/

I looked up the st. Bridged thing but only found references to her being a lesbian on other gay websites so...


#8

I don't know too much about st Bridget but I do know that I have heard multiple people arguing that St Augustine was pro-abortion and in st augustine's case comes from a misquote and a misunderstanding of his writings. Wouldn't be surprised if the same is happening here.


#9

I don't know much about either of the St Brigids (Ireland or Sweden) but I think you can read LGBT tendencies in anything, if you really try hard enough. Like you could easily say Hildegard of Bingen was LGBT. I've heard arguments that St Paul was a closet homosexual. Equally, my spiritual director said that some people (NB. NOT his opinion, just those of some people in general) believe that St Therese of Lisieux was LGBT. So your friend could have easily read some little thing about St Brigid and turned a molehill into a mountain, so to speak.

I also though have to question how your friend can know that St Brigid was a lesbian, if the Church destroyed the evidence and covered it up? :shrug:


#10

St. Brigid of Ireland often gets pulled into liberal theology arguments, because she was very charismatic, and we don't have a lot of facts about her life. She is claimed to be a lesbian, and often used as an argument for letting women join the priesthood, since it is often told how she performed priestly duties. It doesn't help that there was a Celtic goddess by the name of Brigid, and the two have a lot in common. The truth is that St. Brigid was a real person, but over the centuries popular folklore has attributed much of the goddess's qualities to St. Brigid (it happens when pagans are converted). We actually know next to nothing about the real St. Brigid, except that she was Christian, and charismatic enough that people remember her existence after over a thousand years.

So, no. St. Brigid was NOT a lesbian. Good luck convincing your friend that, though. I know the type. ;)


#11

Remember that we are not against homosexuality, and that there would be nothing sinful if a person is gay or lesbian. Even if a certain saint had this disordered attraction, her embrace of chastity (particularly if heroic, through solemn vows) would be a wonderful testimony to everyone, heterosexual and homosexual alike, to show that there is something greater that leads to true joy.


#12

It propoganda. They are grasping at straws and using every thing they can think of to defend their position, unfortunately that means demeaning and demonizing our beloved saints and leaders. I don't believe it. The timing is too coincidental and I have never seen any proof that the church performed these marriages.

These same people are complaining that the Church is too behind the times and hateful. Cardinal Dolan (who is my personal archbishop) is beign used as a pawn. He was asked one question in an interview recently about what his position is on gay marriage. He stated what the Church has always said. We love everyone as God loves everyone. We hate no one, but marriage is still between a man and a woman. They are twisting his words and making it seem in some articles like he is saying the Church's position is wrong, in others they are making it sound like he is a bigot. He is only being honest.

They also claim that ancient cultures all embraced homosexual marriages and it is only a recent phenomenon that society is against it.

The danger is that they get press time for all of this so people believe it because it is in the news, but they have no proof. And, just because you see it in the Sun doesn't mean it's so anymore.


#13

One more thought, I read the conversation between you and the "scholar author". If they don't want to be Catholic, so be it. No one is forcing them to, no one is insisting they do. If they don't agree, then stay out of the Church. I'm sorry, but her line that "this is about Freedom from Religion" is the crux of this entire fight. It is not property rights, it is not religious rights, it is destroying religion. The general concensus of Atheiests and other fringe groups that are denouncing the Church is that the simple existence of the Church is offensive and illegal because it supports beliefs other than their own.

I believe in loving people as Jesus would, no matter who they are. I have "gay" people in my circles of family and aquaintences and never treat them as "subhuman" or "second class citizens" as it is claimed. However, I will never support my Church allowing them to change our Faith to fit their agenda because at the end of the day, we answer to GOD and their real intent is to destroy His Church and His people.

This is being framed as civil rights fight but it is really a fight for more power for the executive branch and ultimately a fight between good and evil.


#14

My understanding is that there was a Celtic goddess also by the name of Brigid. Some scholars have suggested that there never was a real woman who was the model for St Brigid; instead, they claim, the Church may have appropriated the Celtic legends and 'created' a St Brigid from the legends of the Celtic goddess.

This is why your friend says that the Church "cleaned up" the story, but the spin she puts on it is impressive. The Celtic legends suggest that Brigid (the goddess, not the saint) may have had a relationship with another Celtic goddess. So, to state that "St Brigid was a lesbian" is intellectually dishonest. If the Church fabricated St Brigid from legend (and that's far from a settled conclusion), then the legendary character, not the saint -- and therefore, not the Church -- posits the homosexual relationship. Therefore, it's not that the Church 'hid' St Brigid's sexual orientation. Your friend should consider how impartial her scholarship is, or at least, be willing to admit to partisan spin-doctoring... :rolleyes:


#15

Thanks for the responses! I love how the article states, "Until the Church bends on marriage equality..."

This shows such a huge misunderstanding of Church teaching, as if the Church herself has decided that gay relationships are inferior to heterosexual ones. As if the Church could just "decide" tomorrow to change its whole position. As if the Church can simply change the definition of marriage as given to us by God himself at the beginning of time.


#16

Bonjour LeSainte,

I believe that we had quite a conversation this morning. What I did not get to you earlier was the full citation for my information. Sorry, my library is in a bit of disarray.

I got my information from:

Ellis, Peter Berrisford. Celtic Women. Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing, 1992. Pg 149. Ellis, who is working off of one of the earliest versions of The Life of St. Brigid wrote "We seem to be left in little doubt that Brigid had a lesbian relationship with another member of her community. She certainly shared her bed at Kildare with Darlughdacha, whose name means 'daughter of the sun god Lugh'."

Sorry, but it was not a joke; however, it should be noted that, technically, St. Brigid of Kildare was not a Roman Catholic Saint until the Irish Church was absorbed by the Roman Church during the Synod at Whitby, and that St. Brigid is no longer actually a Roman Catholic saint, having been removed in the 1960's. She remains an Anglican saint, though.

Sorry I didn't get you that information sooner.

Take care and have a good night-

BPL.


#17

St. Brigit (or Brigid, Bridget, Bridgit) is still a Roman Catholic saint. She was never removed from the Roman Catholic liturgy; her feast, February 1st, is still honored (whether or not it is celebrated at Mass, I am not sure).


#18

She was supposedly removed in the 1960, though actually getting the majority of Catholics to go along with removing her has proven rather difficult. This is, at least, what I learned.

Good night, and enjoy yourself.


#19

[quote="Artemisia, post:16, topic:321164"]
Bonjour LeSainte,

I believe that we had quite a conversation this morning. What I did not get to you earlier was the full citation for my information. Sorry, my library is in a bit of disarray.

I got my information from:

Ellis, Peter Berrisford. Celtic Women. Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing, 1992. Pg 149. Ellis, who is working off of one of the earliest versions of The Life of St. Brigid wrote "We seem to be left in little doubt that Brigid had a lesbian relationship with another member of her community. She certainly shared her bed at Kildare with Darlughdacha, whose name means 'daughter of the sun god Lugh'."

Sorry, but it was not a joke; however, it should be noted that, technically, St. Brigid of Kildare was not a Roman Catholic Saint until the Irish Church was absorbed by the Roman Church during the Synod at Whitby, and that St. Brigid is no longer actually a Roman Catholic saint, having been removed in the 1960's. She remains an Anglican saint, though.

Sorry I didn't get you that information sooner.

Take care and have a good night-

BPL.

[/quote]

I think you are terribly misinformed, I can take nothing you say seriously, because you can't even get the fact that she is still considered a Saint in the Catholic Church right. Her feast day by the way, is February 1st. catholicnewsagency.com/saint.php?n=134

Here is perhaps some better (less tainted with biases from the present) information on St. Brigid. They at least acknowledge the difficulties of the scholarship associated with documenting deep personal details for someone who lived in the 5th century. :rolleyes:


#20

[quote="jilly4ski, post:19, topic:321164"]
I think you are terribly misinformed, I can take nothing you say seriously, because you can't even get the fact that she is still considered a Saint in the Catholic Church right. Her feast day by the way, is February 1st. catholicnewsagency.com/saint.php?n=134

Here is perhaps some better (less tainted with biases from the present) information on St. Brigid. They at least acknowledge the difficulties of the scholarship associated with documenting deep personal details for someone who lived in the 5th century. :rolleyes:

[/quote]

First of all, I am always willing to admit that I could be incorrect about whether or not St. Brigit is still considered a saint. I relied upon what I was taught and what I had read. What is it that has been said about a truly wise person knows that they can be wrong.

Secondly, like it or not, I am very much aware of the fact that ascertaining the veracity of the events of the distant past can be difficult; however, a true historian attempts to minimize their biases while the biases of the past are actually hard to determine, and many older sources are far more biased than unbiased. I've spend most of my adult life studying history, so I am very, very familiar with the ways in which one determines the accuracy of a source. I have found that only those who cling to ignorance dismiss possible information without having first assessed it.

And, finally, I am currently working on my finial degree, so I must apologize, but this is the limit of time that I can spend on this debate. I just wanted to give my citation and to let you all know this was no April Fool's joke. Given the nature of this site, and the nature of the comments I have read, I had sincere doubts that I would change any minds.

Enjoy your night or day.

Brigit ni Loynaz, Bardes


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