St. Joseph's tomb


#1

Anyone know where it is? I’m coming up short with my basic internet search…


#2

I don’t believe anyone really knows where St. Joseph was entombed. He remains a mystery even after death. On the positive, we know where he is now…in Heaven with all the other saints.


#3

If I remember right, David ^ ^ ^ ^ is correct. I was under the impression that we don’t know anything about St. Joseph’s death and burial. The “Joseph’s Tomb” known in Israel is an O.T. guy.

How’s that for research? :wink: Guess I’m tired tonight :wink:


#4

I guess I already knew we didn’t know. Kind of amazing, though…

In my “research” online, I discovered a blurb about a prophecy that Joseph’s incorrupt body will be found in a tomb somewhere. That sounds cooooooollllll…[/Bart Simpson voice.]


#5

Personally, I suspect that Joseph’s tomb is somewhere on the outskirts of Nazareth but…

From catholictradition.org/litany9b.htm :
THE BODY AND TOMB OF ST. JOSEPH

“In an ecstasy, a saint has seen the body of St. Joseph preserved intact in a tomb, the site of which is yet unknown. The more the glorious spouse of the most Blessed Virgin Mary is honored, the sooner will the finding of his body take place, which will be a day of great joy for the Church.” [Words of Fr. Paul of Moll, 1824-1896, from Father Paul of Moll, by Edward van Speybrouck, p. 238]

An ancient tradition states that the tomb of St. Joseph, now empty, is in the Valley of Josaphat. St. Jerome, on the other hand, was of the opinion that St. Joseph’s tomb is within the boundaries of the Garden of Gethsemane. [Source: The Life and Glories of St. Joseph, by Edward H. Thompson, pp. 409-410]


#6

[quote="StCsDavid, post:2, topic:32339"]
I don't believe anyone really knows where St. Joseph was entombed. He remains a mystery even after death. On the positive, we know where he is now...in Heaven with all the other saints.

[/quote]

My church has a 3rd class relic of St. Joseph, so it must've been touched to his tomb, unless there are other extant higher class St. Joseph relics to touch it to?


#7

[quote="Todd_Easton, post:5, topic:32339"]
Personally, I suspect that Joseph's tomb is somewhere on the outskirts of Nazareth but...

From catholictradition.org/litany9b.htm :
THE BODY AND TOMB OF ST. JOSEPH

"In an ecstasy, a saint has seen the body of St. Joseph preserved intact in a tomb, the site of which is yet unknown. The more the glorious spouse of the most Blessed Virgin Mary is honored, the sooner will the finding of his body take place, which will be a day of great joy for the Church." [Words of Fr. Paul of Moll, 1824-1896, from Father Paul of Moll, by Edward van Speybrouck, p. 238]

An ancient tradition states that the tomb of St. Joseph, now empty, is in the Valley of Josaphat. St. Jerome, on the other hand, was of the opinion that St. Joseph's tomb is within the boundaries of the Garden of Gethsemane. [Source: The Life and Glories of St. Joseph, by Edward H. Thompson, pp. 409-410]

[/quote]

At the time of Jesus, there two popular modes of burial: the method more popular with the poorer classes - which of course in those days meant the majority of the population - and some groups such as the Qumran community involved burying the body of the deceased (sometimes placed in a wooden coffin) in a trench grave, not unlike modern day grave cuts. After the pit was filled in, the grave was marked either by erecting a headstone or a pile of rocks at one or both ends, or simply pouring a mixture of lime/chalk and water over the backfill, so that people would recognize the presence of a burial - and thus avoid accidentally passing through it and becoming ritually impure as a result. Given the inconspicuous and highly flimsy nature of this type of grave, relatively few examples of this type of burial survives in the archaeological record.

The other available option was a burial cave, either natural or man-made (completely man-made burial complexes were more rare and costly than natural caverns), which were family affairs, unlike the individual trench graves: the bones of generations upon generations could all be interred in a single cave. The basic design of these rock-cut tombs consists of a square or rectangular room with benches on three sides of the chamber, leaving a pit in the middle, and a low, narrow doorway which could be closed with a blocking stone, which could be either a round disk which could be rolled over the entrance, or more commonly, square/rectangular 'plug-type' stones). Some tombs could be more elaborate - for instance, having multiple chambers, decorated with carvings, and whatnot. Around the time of Jesus you also had tombs with shelves cut into the walls of the interior: one type of shelf is called the arcosolia, which has a bench-like aperture (known as an arcosolium) with an arched ceiling hewn into the length of the wall. Another is the loculus or kokh, a narrow shaft running perpendicularly back from the chamber wall.

In this scenario, the body of the deceased would usually first be laid on the bench, a shelf (arcosolium) or on a niche (kokh) inside the burial chamber and left there, allowing the flesh to rot (the Jews did not practice embalming) until it has totally decomposed - something which is usually considered to occur within the space of a year. Sometimes the body could even be placed on a sort of coffin when it is placed on the shelf. This is what is known as primary burial. At the following year, once the flesh had decomposed, family members would return to the tomb and practice the continuation of the funerary rite known as secondary burial, which involves taking the bones and reinterring it in some way, either by depositing it in a specially-designated area somewhere inside the tomb or - more common at the time of Jesus - in stone boxes called ossuaries, which would then be also placed on a certain spot inside the burial chamber, in the loculi or on the benches.

We know that Jesus was buried in a newly-hewn burial cave that was not His, but we aren't sure about whether Jesus' family had one of their own back at Nazareth. If they did not, perhaps Jesus' earthly grandparents or great-grandparents were just buried in trench graves.


#8

[quote="CardManningFan, post:6, topic:32339"]
My church has a 3rd class relic of St. Joseph, so it must've been touched to his tomb, unless there are other extant higher class St. Joseph relics to touch it to?

[/quote]

Are you sure that it is the St. Joseph? :confused:


#9

[quote="CardManningFan, post:6, topic:32339"]
My church has a 3rd class relic of St. Joseph, so it must've been touched to his tomb, unless there are other extant higher class St. Joseph relics to touch it to?

[/quote]

As the Church does not know where St Joseph (husband of Mary, Mother of God) was buried how can you possibly have any kind of relic of St Joseph?


#10

Yeah, pretty incredible, huh?


#11

[quote="patrick457, post:7, topic:32339"]
At the time of Jesus, there two popular modes of burial: the method more popular with the poorer classes - which of course in those days meant the majority of the population - and some groups such as the Qumran community involved burying the body of the deceased (sometimes placed in a wooden coffin) in a trench grave, not unlike modern day grave cuts. After the pit was filled in, the grave was marked either by erecting a headstone or a pile of rocks at one or both ends, or simply pouring a mixture of lime/chalk and water over the backfill, so that people would recognize the presence of a burial - and thus avoid accidentally passing through it and becoming ritually impure as a result. Given the inconspicuous and highly flimsy nature of this type of grave, relatively few examples of this type of burial survives in the archaeological record.

The other available option was a burial cave, either natural or man-made (completely man-made burial complexes were more rare and costly than natural caverns), which were family affairs, unlike the individual trench graves: the bones of generations upon generations could all be interred in a single cave. The basic design of these rock-cut tombs consists of a square or rectangular room with benches on three sides of the chamber, leaving a pit in the middle, and a low, narrow doorway which could be closed with a blocking stone, which could be either a round disk which could be rolled over the entrance, or more commonly, square/rectangular 'plug-type' stones). Some tombs could be more elaborate - for instance, having multiple chambers, decorated with carvings, and whatnot. Around the time of Jesus you also had tombs with shelves cut into the walls of the interior: one type of shelf is called the arcosolia, which has a bench-like aperture (known as an arcosolium) with an arched ceiling hewn into the length of the wall. Another is the loculus or kokh, a narrow shaft running perpendicularly back from the chamber wall.

In this scenario, the body of the deceased would usually first be laid on the bench, a shelf (arcosolium) or on a niche (kokh) inside the burial chamber and left there, allowing the flesh to rot (the Jews did not practice embalming) until it has totally decomposed - something which is usually considered to occur within the space of a year. Sometimes the body could even be placed on a sort of coffin when it is placed on the shelf. This is what is known as primary burial. At the following year, once the flesh had decomposed, family members would return to the tomb and practice the continuation of the funerary rite known as secondary burial, which involves taking the bones and reinterring it in some way, either by depositing it in a specially-designated area somewhere inside the tomb or - more common at the time of Jesus - in stone boxes called ossuaries, which would then be also placed on a certain spot inside the burial chamber, in the loculi or on the benches.

We know that Jesus was buried in a newly-hewn burial cave that was not His, but we aren't sure about whether Jesus' family had one of their own back at Nazareth. If they did not, perhaps Jesus' earthly grandparents or great-grandparents were just buried in trench graves.

[/quote]

Thank you both. Wonderful information. God bless!


#12

When Joseph’s tomb is found, the end will be hear according to prophecies.


#13

It would be incredible if it really was a relic of St Joseph, husband of Mary but as the Church has no idea where he was buried the relic cannot be his.


#14

Perhaps it’s a 3rd class relic in another way.


#15

Not of St Joseph.

A first class relic is a body part.
A second class relic is any item worn, owned, used by the saint.
A third class relic is an item that has been touched to a first class relic.


#16

[quote="thistle, post:15, topic:32339"]
Not of St Joseph.

A first class relic is a body part.
A second class relic is any item worn, owned, used by the saint.
A third class relic is an item that has been touched to a first class relic.

[/quote]

There are some purported relics of Joseph's cloak (ex pallio) or his staff (ex baculo). Apparently, his belt is also supposed to be at the town of Joinville (Haute-Marne) in France. For the record, according to this article, Bulgaria's National History Museum have purchased what is also claimed to be his relics (assuming that the article described it correctly, wouldn't that be simony?), although the article doesn't specify whether by "relic" they meant his body parts (rather unlikely) or clothes or whatever.


#17

There is a tradition among the fathers that Joseph was among the saints raised when the dead were raised when the crucifixion was finished.

St. Thomas said the dead who were raised when the crucifixion was finished were subsequently assumed into heaven at the ascension.

Ergo Joseph is alive, body and soul, in heaven, having been among the dead resurrected on that glorious day.

Here is the podcast that I heard it from, and its very good and I think you will enjoy it. I haven’t listened to it in awhile but it might be worth a re-listen for me sometime.

audiosancto.org/sermon/20050313-Saint-Joseph-the-Man-Chosen-by-God.html


#18

From "A Manual of Practical Devotion to Saint Joseph" by Father Patrignani, S.J., originally published in 1865 by James Duffy, 15 Wellington-Quay, Dublin, Ireland, in the chapter entitled "Twelfth Motive: St. Joseph is the Special Patron of the Agonizing and of a Happy Death":

(John Charlier de) Gerson adds, that Jesus Himself washed this virginal body, that He crossed the hands over the breast, that He afterwards blessed it, in order to preserve it from the corruption of the tomb, and charged the angels to guard it until it should have been laid in Joseph's ancestral sepulchre, between the Mount of Sion and that of Olives. The general opinion is, that he died about the age of sixty, and before our Divine Lord quitted Nazareth in order to receive baptism from St. John the Baptist.

Theres a link to the book at archive.org:
archive.org/stream/devotiontojoseph00pariuoft#page/n143/mode/2up
The quote is on page 141.


#19

This something that will never be known, much less proven.


#20

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