St Paul's cathedral being built from lies?


#1

I heard from many people that st pauls cathedral was built by German money when priests said"donate money and buy your ticket to heaven"…i was pretty much shocked when i heard this!

Apparantly so,this plays a big part in why the protestant relgion was formed…from some things like this that people dissagreed with!!

Can anyone explain this to me if they know what im talking about,sorry im not too specific but i cant remember the date!


#2

[quote=godsent]I heard from many people that st pauls cathedral was built by German money when priests said"donate money and buy your ticket to heaven"…i was pretty much shocked when i heard this!

Apparantly so,this plays a big part in why the protestant relgion was formed…from some things like this that people dissagreed with!!

Can anyone explain this to me if they know what im talking about,sorry im not too specific but i cant remember the date!
[/quote]

is it st.peter’s cathedral or st.paul’s?:confused:


#3

[quote=godsent]I heard from many people that st peter’s cathedral was built by German money when priests said"donate money and buy your ticket to heaven"…i was pretty much shocked when i heard this!

Apparantly so,this plays a big part in why the protestant relgion was formed…from some things like this that people dissagreed with!!

Can anyone explain this to me if they know what im talking about,sorry im not too specific but i cant remember the date!
[/quote]


#4

Sorry,ive corrected it now!:o


#5

Sorry everbody,i meant to write st peters cathderal!


#6

Godsent,

**The Anti-Catholics believe that the money donated for indulgences was used to fund St. Peter’s Bascilica. That is obviously not true. The money came from donations all over the Church. Not just donations from indulgences. An indulgence is not “buying a ticket to heaven.” Instead, an indulgence is a prayer that is done after the consecration of the Eucharist for the specific dead person that the mass is being offered for. If the person is in Hell, obviously the person can not benefit from it. But, if a person is in purgatory, they are relieved from going through the punishment of their venial sins or stains of sins. **

For more:

Primer on Indulgences

Myths about Indulgences

Purgatory


#7

St. Peter’s Basilica was in existence way before Martin Luther arrived on the scene although repair work was underway at that time period. Here is a fascinating history:

exseminarians.com/rome/Churches/stpeters.htm

**Rome’s Christians and Nero’s Circus **

Where St. Peter’s now stands was once a chariot racing stadium, built in the time of the Emperor Caligula, Claudius and Nero (40-65). That was the first century of our era. Nero was the Emperor who began the first great persecution of Christians in Rome. Under his rule of terror, many Christians were imprisoned and put to death here in the newly completed stadium (“Circus” in Latin).

Among those first Christians to be rounded up by Nero’s soldiers was the leader of the Christian community in Rome, St. Peter the Apostle. He had probably come to Rome about the year 40 and was therefore about 25 years in the city preaching the Good News and obviously making many converts to Christianity – too many for Nero’s liking.

Many of these Christians were thrown to the wild animals as part of the entertainment in the stadium. Many, however, were crucified. A low wall divided the arena of the stadium so that the chariot races took place around that wall. Those condemned to crucifixion were attached to crosses and these were erected on the low wall so that the chariot races took place around them. Some, we are told by Tacitus, the chronicler of the Roman Empire, had oil and tar poured over their bodies and they were set alight to illuminate the stadium in the late summer evenings.

The stadium, about six hundred yards long, stretched from about the end of the Western wing of the Colonnade to well beyond the apse of the present basilica. St. Peter’s place of crucifixion is traditionally marked as corresponding to the left hand wing of the basilica, more or less where the altar of St. Joseph is today.

**Peter’s Tomb **

Afterwards, some of his friends took Peter’s body and buried it in the nearest cemetery. That was just outside and to the right of the stadium.** The tomb of Peter is still there, underneath the front of the Papal Altar and about 20’ below the floor level of the basilica. (This is the most fascinating point!)**

**Constantine’s Basilica **

When Christians were eventually given their freedom, under Emperor Constantine, after more than two hundred years of persecution, it was decided to build a basilica above the tomb of the Prince of the Apostles. Many things had changed in those two hundred years. Christians had become so numerous in Rome that persecution was judged counter productive. Contrary to pagan practice, Christians assembled frequently for worship. They needed increasingly large buildings – much larger than the tiny pagan temples of the past. Constantine saw to the building of a number of these “Basilicas” and especially to the largest of them which was erected above the tomb of Peter on the slope of the Vatican hill.

Michelangelo’s Basilica (1506-1626)

That building lasted throughout the centuries until 1500. It was then in such a state of disrepair that Pope Julius II decided to replace it with a new and more magnificent structure. Work began in April 1506. Many great artists were involved in its construction and decoration: Bramante, Sangallo, Raphael, Michelangelo, Maderno, Della Porta, Bernini, Fontana. The most notable contributions, however, are those of Michelangelo, Maderno and Bernini. At the age of 72, in 1546, Michelangelo was obliged to undertake the building of the present Basilica by Pope Paul III. When he died the construction of the Greek Cross section surrounding the Papal altar and the tomb of Peter had been completed only as far as the top of the drum: the large windows which are underneath the upturned bowl of the dome. The bowl itself, changed in shape from the half rounded shape of Michelangelo’s design to the half oval shape of today, was completed by Della Porta in May 1590. The Pope was Sixtus V.

By the way, it’s not a “cathedral”, it’s called a Basilica. It’s not your fault as you’re not Catholic but that’s also a major mistake that you made in referring to it as St. Paul’s. It shows that you do not understand the Petrine Ministry. In any event, Catholics were not lied to to get money to build the Basilica in Constantine’s time nor were they lied to when the Basilica underwent major repairs during Luther’s time.


#8

Regarding the idea of “lies”, in 1513 the pope issued a bull announcing to the world that the new basilica would eclipse in size and magnificence every church in Christendom. Graciously he promised an extension of indulgences to those pious benefactors who agreed to pay contributions on an annual basis. The idea that a generous offering to some good cause, made with the right intention, should be rewarded with an indulgence from ‘the Church’s treasure chest’, is quite in accordance with Catholic doctrine. **But, inevitably, it came to be interpreted by some Catholics that anyone could buy remission from his time in purgatory. Also, there were some clergy who abused indulgences by offering them as though they were “for sale” rather than the money being a “donation”. **(I think an understanding of what an indulgence actually is is necessary to understanding the distinction. An indulgence is not something that “one buys to get into heaven”. This is the distortion brought to us by the Reformation. Roman Army put links above.) Any abuse that went on was not at the behest of the Pope but would have been the responsibility of overzealous, individual members of clergy.It was certainly not a campaign of lies perpetrated by the Church on unsuspecting citizens to steal money from them to build a big cathedral as anti-Catholics have portrayed indulgences to be. The Council of Trent officially declared abuse of indulgences to be forbidden. One of the ironies of history is that the means devised to finance the building of a great shrine over the tomb of the first pope should have done much to destroy the authority of his successors with the coming of the Reformation.


#9

Hey, wait a minute! You are Catholic! “My bad” - Sorry. Why didn’t you know that in Rome we have “St. Peter’s Basilica” though? :tsktsk:
Maybe St. Paul’s Cathedral in London was built on lies! There is one to investigate. Just kidding! :stuck_out_tongue:


#10

Whatever St Pauls Cathedral was built from, it was built by Sir Christopher Wren.

See here - view from the South East.

I can see the dome from the terrace of my flat - it looks to me like it is built of stone.

rossum


#11

[quote=rossum]Whatever St Pauls Cathedral was built from, it was built by Sir Christopher Wren.

See here - view from the South East.

I can see the dome from the terrace of my flat - it looks to me like it is built of stone.

rossum
[/quote]

Hmmm… stone? O.K. So, neither St. Paul’s nor St. Peter’s are built from lies. :wink:

(I’ve seen St. Paul’s in person by the way, as I lived in London 8 years ago. It’s a beautiful cathedral! :yup: )


#12

[quote=Eden]Hey, wait a minute! You are Catholic! “My bad” - Sorry. Why didn’t you know that in Rome we have “St. Peter’s Basilica” though? :tsktsk:
Maybe St. Paul’s Cathedral in London was built on lies! There is one to investigate. Just kidding! :stuck_out_tongue:
[/quote]

Sorry,i wasnt concentrating when i wrote it…forgive me:o


#13
St. Peter's Basilica is not a cathedral.

#14

[quote=porthos11]
St. Peter’s Basilica is not a cathedral.

[/quote]

I understand that you feel that I was a bit harsh on godsent. I agree and I’ve said so. But I respectfully disagree that I was nitpicking on this point. That’s like saying it’s nitpicking to draw a distinction between the Pope and a Bishop.

To godsent- I understand now that you were so alarmed by the prospect that St. Peter’s was built under suspect circumstances that you made a mistake about the name. You’ve asked some other interesting questions here before that I’m surprised at myself that I didn’t recognize your name and thought you were an anti-Catholic poster. Again- So sorry!


#15

[quote=Eden]I understand that you feel that I was a bit harsh on godsent. I agree and I’ve said so. But I respectfully disagree that I was nitpicking on this point. That’s like saying it’s nitpicking to draw a distinction between the Pope and a Bishop.

[/quote]

Hi Eden

The nitpick wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. I just felt like reminding everyone that St. Peter’s is not a cathedral. The Cathedral is the church holding the seat of the Bishop, and the Cathedral of Rome is St. John Lateran. That’s why St. John is the mother church of the Catholic Church, not St. Peter’s Basilica.


#16

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