Standards Too High For Man?

#21

[quote="EasterJoy, post:19, topic:222005"]
OP, your standards aren't out of line, but you will do well to be realistic and compassionate about your search. There are very few societal pressures to bring out these qualities in a man, and there are even some bent on extinguishing these fine qualities in men who have them. For instance, men are actively encouraged to be selfish and juvenile before marriage--and after marriage if they can get away with it--rather than being fun-loving and capable of relaxation with other men in ways that are still appropriate to a grown-up. Men are taught to see women as objects, not as daughters of the Lord, or else as beings that are in no way different and who should be treated in no way different than another man. I could go on, but suffice it to say that getting to the place you're describing is a steep uphill battle, even for the ones with enough going for them to know to want it. Consider the difficulty of a woman to reach this in our culture and you will know what I mean: Similarly, (too,) women should adorn themselves with proper conduct, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hairstyles and gold ornaments, or pearls, or expensive clothes, but rather, as befits women who profess reverence for God, with good deeds.** 1 Tim. 2: 9-10 **Suffice it to say that this is not the ideal of womanhood that our young men and women are being bombarded with, either.

When I was about your age, I came up with this rule: 1 in 10 guys are worth dealing with just about from birth, about 8 in 10 aren't worth dealing with until they're 25, and 1 in 10 are never going to be worth dealing with at all. I'm not sure if the ratios are correct, but the general idea has proven to be spot on: Many men are not sufficiently mature to even consider as marriage material until they are out of college.

Men know this; I have not met any over the age of 25 who differ with my basic premise. Many of the ones who were early to mature went through high school and college disgusted with their peers and how those peers talked about the women they dated. I am convinced that this is why so many fathers would like to lock up their daughters until their daughters are out of college. They look at the young men their daughters are dating, and they think: I was you once, buddy. That is my daughter you have there, though. Don't even think it. If you hurt her, I will hunt you down like a dog.

Be open to having to communicate that you like "chivalrous", and be willing to adjust your definition to the realities of the 21st century. By that I do not mean to embrace a feminist ideal that says men and women are the same. I mean that the chances are high that you make more than he does, and should not expect him to pay for everything, that you do not wear a skirt and heels everywhere and therefore have a less obvious need to have doors opened for you and chairs pulled out in every circumstance, that kind of thing. We cannot afford to have an appreciation of chivalry degenerate into a sense of entitlement.

[/quote]

I dont like that you put women on a pedestal. College age women are just as immature as college age men. They also are not in a position to consider marriage. That is why many young women end up divorced. They go for someone older and when marriage comes their spouse wont put up with someone immature as soon as the sex becomes mundane.

You sound like my best friend. He believes 8/10 women are promiscuous. He gets called out on it all the time. Yet it is perfect ok for a women to believe the same about men.

The way you write your post comes off as men being responsible for all the problems good women have. Good women cant find dates because they want the bad guy personality inside the good guy. You cant have both at the same time.

It is incredible how many girls turn down good guys because they can only see them as like a "brother". Well, if you are that shallow I cant believe you are very mature and I cant feel any sympathy for struggling to find a good guy.

Maybe if young women actually went for good guys and accepted there may be some imperfections then women would complain less about guys.

I also find it insulting as a man when women assume I cant be a virgin or control myself and that I objectify women simply by being a man.

Women are not perfect even if they like to think they are. They are no better than men in most cases. Who do you think these unchaste men are being unchaste with? Thats right, with women. Even the unchaste women complain about men wanting sex. How hypocritical is that??!!!

It is a two-way street. Women are not more virtuous and chaste than men are. Women are no more mature than men are.

Men are typically more honest and straightforward though. Women dodge questions and wont be honest with you even when you ask. That is ultimate sign of immaturity. When you cant be honest and tell the truth, you are immature. I know because each time I have been turned down by a woman, none has ever told me why or been honest when I asked. Yet, I am always honest when I turn them down. Even if it means being harsh. I would rather they know the truth than to lie and give a generic answer.

Both sides stuff smells bad. I dont hold everything against women. I try to get the complete person and not a list of qualities or demands. I would go for an atheist if I thought her goodness outweighed her negatives. Listing demands and qualities for spouses is the road to singledom.

When you make lists of qualities and demands, you ignore your own failings. You dont consider if you would match up to a guy or girl like that. You just assume that someone will when it can be very true that it wont be the case.

All I am saying is that there are good men out there and if a Catholic girl wants a good man she should be looking at the big picture instead of the small picture.

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#22

[quote="EasterJoy, post:20, topic:222005"]
The problem is that the people in HR need employees who actually show up on time on all the days they have committed to work, actually work when they get there, and won't be leaving for greener pastures before 2 years have passed. They want people who won't lie in order to use their sick leave every time the weather is nice out, so that maybe the employee might have some sick time accrued when they actually get sick. Many times, HR needs employees that have fully competent communication skills in both written and spoken English, which is not a given even among 3rd-generation American high school graduates. Even though the number of high school graduates who lack basic skills is very high, the requirements that must be placed on employees in order to conform to regulations only keeps increasing.

People in HR and people interested in marriage can be totally unrealistic, this is true, but there are also a lot of impossibly bad applicants out there.

It is expensive to train employees, and if an employee is disappointing, it is very hard to get rid of him or her. Likewise, this world is full of people who a) hardly have the maturity to enter into a valid marriage, b) can't be trusted to use that maturity to stick in there for the lifetime of the marriage, or c) make that lifetime seem very very long for the person stuck sticking in there with them. I don't blame employers, landlords, or potential spouses for being very circumspect. The ramifications of making a poor choice are just too serious.

Having said that, anyone looking for a great employee or a great spouse has to ask themselves this: Why would this great rare person choose you? It takes a good one to catch a good one. If you (or your organization) don't have higher standards for yourself than for the person you are seeking, well: Good luck, but don't hold your breath. Your assessment of your qualifications is probably higher than anyone else's. (This is elementary human nature.)

A question the OP might ask in light of her admission that she is "no Immaculate Conception." That could mean a lot of things, from being humble enough to admit her imperfections to having a lot of past "mistakes" of a magnitude that would disqualify applicants coming to her. So OP: check the "wish lists" being posted by picky Catholic men, and ask: Would I pass muster with a guy with standards as high as mine? If so, be patient. If not, you have your work cut out for you, if you're going to reach your goal.

[/quote]

I read [FONT=Arial]EasterJoy's posts and often disagree (not this one). Part of attraction and getting along is finding someone you can have a respectful (often spirited) debate with. EasterJoy is one such person. I am not sure how I would react to her in person, but would welcome the opportunity. Actually I think I disagree with many of her nuances but we might be in agreement on the bigger picture. I am not flirting, just making observations, and I know she would test a man as strongly as I would test her. (not that she is available or that I care) So this is why my comments pertain exactly to this tread![/FONT]

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#23

[quote="mjs1987, post:21, topic:222005"]
I dont like that you put women on a pedestal. College age women are just as immature as college age men. They also are not in a position to consider marriage. That is why many young women end up divorced. They go for someone older and when marriage comes their spouse wont put up with someone immature as soon as the sex becomes mundane.

You sound like my best friend. He believes 8/10 women are promiscuous. He gets called out on it all the time. Yet it is perfect ok for a women to believe the same about men.

The way you write your post comes off as men being responsible for all the problems good women have. Good women can't find dates because they want the bad guy personality inside the good guy. You cant have both at the same time.

It is incredible how many girls turn down good guys because they can only see them as like a "brother". Well, if you are that shallow I can't believe you are very mature and I can't feel any sympathy for struggling to find a good guy.

Maybe if young women actually went for good guys and accepted there may be some imperfections then women would complain less about guys.

I also find it insulting as a man when women assume I can't be a virgin or control myself and that I objectify women simply by being a man.

Women are not perfect even if they like to think they are. They are no better than men in most cases. Who do you think these unchaste men are being unchaste with? Thats right, with women. Even the unchaste women complain about men wanting sex. How hypocritical is that??!!!

It is a two-way street. Women are not more virtuous and chaste than men are. Women are no more mature than men are.

Men are typically more honest and straightforward though. Women dodge questions and won't be honest with you even when you ask. That is ultimate sign of immaturity. When you can't be honest and tell the truth, you are immature. I know because each time I have been turned down by a woman, none has ever told me why or been honest when I asked. Yet, I am always honest when I turn them down. Even if it means being harsh. I would rather they know the truth than to lie and give a generic answer.

Both sides stuff smells bad. I don't hold everything against women. I try to get the complete person and not a list of qualities or demands. I would go for an atheist if I thought her goodness outweighed her negatives. Listing demands and qualities for spouses is the road to singledom.

When you make lists of qualities and demands, you ignore your own failings. You don't consider if you would match up to a guy or girl like that. You just assume that someone will, when it can be very true that it wont be the case.

All I am saying is that there are good men out there and if a Catholic girl wants a good man she should be looking at the big picture instead of the small picture.

[/quote]

I agree, but I expect that you will be blasted (by women) for this post as will I for affirming it. (separately tally the comments from men and women)

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#24

[quote="tinytherese, post:1, topic:222005"]
I know that sometimes they say to raise your standards high and not to settle for a man who disrespects you, but to what extent can standards be idealistic? I'm not talking about silly stuff like "No, not him, he's a red hed," or "I'm breaking up with him, he keeps making a funny noise when he chews his food."

I mean in terms of setting standards for a man's character in order for him to be worthy to pursue a relationship with. I know that men (and women) are both flawed and that if you want a perfect spouse then you had better join the religious life and that even virtuous people mess up, but shouldn't say being consistently rude or intentionally getting **drunk without a care be significant issues when it comes to evaluating a man's character?

Is it really too much for a woman to ask to want a gentleman who at least tries to be compassionate and charitable (and at times messes up just like the rest of us) and who strives to be responsible in what he does (and again at times messes up just like the rest of us,) instead of a man who appears to be frequently be the opposite?

I've just been getting frustrated with the young men around me, but part of that appears to be that some of them at my university are still in the immature college partier stage (such refusing to be responisble with alcohol,) I feel older than them and I'm only 22. I'm no Immaculate Conception but maybe I'm at a different faith stage. I know that I'll be meeting other men after college, but it's frustrating to see Catholic guys at a Catholic college who have orthodox beliefs, say the rosary, and sometimes attend daily mass, yet have an astonishing lack of trying to be charitable and who are not trying to be responsible. I hate to sound self-righteous and I don't see myself as worth any more than them.

Is this definition of gentleman too much or should I lower my standards?

An Authentic Gentleman- genuine, chivalrous, not arrogant or rude (as in at least tries to be charitable), not possessive, not the jealous type, not abusive, lovingly protective, faithful, willing to sacrifice out of love, confident, striving for purity of thought action and speech, cooperative, respectful, responsible, and trustworthy

[/quote]

If you want to see if your standards are too high, take a moment to look at yourself and see if the qualities you're asking for from other people can be found in yourself.

I dont like that you put women on a pedestal. College age women are just as immature as college age men. They also are not in a position to consider marriage. That is why many young women end up divorced. They go for someone older and when marriage comes their spouse wont put up with someone immature as soon as the sex becomes mundane.

You sound like my best friend. He believes 8/10 women are promiscuous. He gets called out on it all the time. Yet it is perfect ok for a women to believe the same about men.

The way you write your post comes off as men being responsible for all the problems good women have. Good women cant find dates because they want the bad guy personality inside the good guy. You cant have both at the same time.

It is incredible how many girls turn down good guys because they can only see them as like a "brother". Well, if you are that shallow I cant believe you are very mature and I cant feel any sympathy for struggling to find a good guy.

Maybe if young women actually went for good guys and accepted there may be some imperfections then women would complain less about guys.

I also find it insulting as a man when women assume I cant be a virgin or control myself and that I objectify women simply by being a man.

Women are not perfect even if they like to think they are. They are no better than men in most cases. Who do you think these unchaste men are being unchaste with? Thats right, with women. Even the unchaste women complain about men wanting sex. How hypocritical is that??!!!

It is a two-way street. Women are not more virtuous and chaste than men are. Women are no more mature than men are.

Men are typically more honest and straightforward though. Women dodge questions and wont be honest with you even when you ask. That is ultimate sign of immaturity. When you cant be honest and tell the truth, you are immature. I know because each time I have been turned down by a woman, none has ever told me why or been honest when I asked. Yet, I am always honest when I turn them down. Even if it means being harsh. I would rather they know the truth than to lie and give a generic answer.

Both sides stuff smells bad. I dont hold everything against women. I try to get the complete person and not a list of qualities or demands. I would go for an atheist if I thought her goodness outweighed her negatives. Listing demands and qualities for spouses is the road to singledom.

When you make lists of qualities and demands, you ignore your own failings. You dont consider if you would match up to a guy or girl like that. You just assume that someone will when it can be very true that it wont be the case.

All I am saying is that there are good men out there and if a Catholic girl wants a good man she should be looking at the big picture instead of the small picture.

A-M-E-N. :thumbsup:

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#25

[quote="Daegus, post:24, topic:222005"]
If you want to see if your standards are too high, take a moment to look at yourself and see if the qualities you're asking for from other people can be found in yourself.

[/quote]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

And, as a follow-up, if after some honest reflection you find that you're not living up to this standard, make an effort to both: (1) prepare yourself for marriage by cultivating these characteristics and (2) be forgiving when you discover a potential mate has a flawed past.

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#26

[quote="mjs1987, post:21, topic:222005"]
I dont like that you put women on a pedestal. College age women are just as immature as college age men. They also are not in a position to consider marriage. That is why many young women end up divorced. They go for someone older and when marriage comes their spouse wont put up with someone immature as soon as the sex becomes mundane.

You sound like my best friend. He believes 8/10 women are promiscuous. He gets called out on it all the time. Yet it is perfect ok for a women to believe the same about men.

The way you write your post comes off as men being responsible for all the problems good women have. Good women cant find dates because they want the bad guy personality inside the good guy. You cant have both at the same time.

It is incredible how many girls turn down good guys because they can only see them as like a "brother". Well, if you are that shallow I cant believe you are very mature and I cant feel any sympathy for struggling to find a good guy.

Maybe if young women actually went for good guys and accepted there may be some imperfections then women would complain less about guys.

I also find it insulting as a man when women assume I cant be a virgin or control myself and that I objectify women simply by being a man.

Women are not perfect even if they like to think they are. They are no better than men in most cases. Who do you think these unchaste men are being unchaste with? Thats right, with women. Even the unchaste women complain about men wanting sex. How hypocritical is that??!!!

It is a two-way street. Women are not more virtuous and chaste than men are. Women are no more mature than men are.

Men are typically more honest and straightforward though. Women dodge questions and wont be honest with you even when you ask. That is ultimate sign of immaturity. When you cant be honest and tell the truth, you are immature. I know because each time I have been turned down by a woman, none has ever told me why or been honest when I asked. Yet, I am always honest when I turn them down. Even if it means being harsh. I would rather they know the truth than to lie and give a generic answer.

Both sides stuff smells bad. I dont hold everything against women. I try to get the complete person and not a list of qualities or demands. I would go for an atheist if I thought her goodness outweighed her negatives. Listing demands and qualities for spouses is the road to singledom.

When you make lists of qualities and demands, you ignore your own failings. You dont consider if you would match up to a guy or girl like that. You just assume that someone will when it can be very true that it wont be the case.

All I am saying is that there are good men out there and if a Catholic girl wants a good man she should be looking at the big picture instead of the small picture.

[/quote]

As I said, 1 guy in 10 was totally worth dealing with essentially from Day 1, and that is not necessarily a "real number", either. Why didn't I talk about women? Only because I've never gone looking for one. I will say that women ready to be a wife from the age of 18, as my mother was, and men ready from the age of 21, as my dad was, are relatively rarer now, partly because it simply is not expected.

I don't think it is true that "when you make lists of qualities and demands, you ignore your own failings". That is not necessarily so. If it is so, good luck finding anyone. You have to figure that anyone who meets standards is a person who has standards for himself or herself and wants a spouse who also has standards! To think otherwise is simply unrealistic.

I think you will find a harder time finding a woman who is direct than finding a man who is direct, you are right about that. Women in our times go through life with social expectations that involve a lot of covert and indirect communication that I don't think is entirely healthy. Being capable of tact and diplomacy is one thing. Being in a social circle where a certain amount of paranoia and wariness is the justified response of any reasonable person is something else again. Having said that, people who are with someone with whom it is safe being direct can learn to be direct with that person. See it before you marry, but the change has been known to happen.

I caught the wonderful guy who was not attached even though he was 8 years older than I was partly because he was heavy set and had adolescence do bad things to his skin. My gain, some other woman's loss: he is attractive to me, and not just "attractive enough". The ways in which he does not meet the "prevailing ideal" simply do not matter to me.

No one is perfect (and come to think of it, would a "perfect" person exactly be a picnic to live with?) but I think even what we think of as faults should be things we don't mind passing over. We are as likely to get worse as we are to get better, be sure of that. If I thought my husband was a "fixer upper"--"just perfect if you'd lose a few pounds" or some idiocy like that--it would have been best for both of us to keep looking. The way I look at it, though, those of us who know to value what is truly valuable and ignore the rest will get the reward for it! You have to be honest about what you really care about, though. If you're shallow, don't pretend to be deep. If you don't feel you've found a real catch, keep looking. Your spouse deserves to be thought a treasure! :thumbsup:

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#27

I am going to go out on a really big limb here (and please no one take offense I am addressing this about men as the OP is a woman - I already know the same holds true vice versa) where are you meeting these men? For me it will be a while before I am free to date again. And it may be a while more before I am ready to date again. But I want to meet men that share the Catholic Faith. Since this is important I want to meet them at Church events if possible. As this would show me that Church is a central point in their life and not something to be "time-stamped" on Sundays.

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#28

[quote="tinytherese, post:1, topic:222005"]
I know that sometimes they say to raise your standards high and not to settle for a man who disrespects you, but to what extent can standards be idealistic? I'm not talking about silly stuff like "No, not him, he's a red hed," or "I'm breaking up with him, he keeps making a funny noise when he chews his food."

I mean in terms of setting standards for a man's character in order for him to be worthy to pursue a relationship with. I know that men (and women) are both flawed and that if you want a perfect spouse then you had better join the religious life and that even virtuous people mess up, but shouldn't say being consistently rude or intentionally getting **drunk without a care be significant issues when it comes to evaluating a man's character?

Is it really too much for a woman to ask to want a gentleman who at least tries to be compassionate and charitable (and at times messes up just like the rest of us) and who strives to be responsible in what he does (and again at times messes up just like the rest of us,) instead of a man who appears to be frequently be the opposite?

I've just been getting frustrated with the young men around me, but part of that appears to be that some of them at my university are still in the immature college partier stage (such refusing to be responisble with alcohol,) I feel older than them and I'm only 22. I'm no Immaculate Conception but maybe I'm at a different faith stage. I know that I'll be meeting other men after college, but it's frustrating to see Catholic guys at a Catholic college who have orthodox beliefs, say the rosary, and sometimes attend daily mass, yet have an astonishing lack of trying to be charitable and who are not trying to be responsible. I hate to sound self-righteous and I don't see myself as worth any more than them.

Is this definition of gentleman too much or should I lower my standards?

An Authentic Gentleman- genuine, chivalrous, not arrogant or rude (as in at least tries to be charitable), not possessive, not the jealous type, not abusive, lovingly protective, faithful, willing to sacrifice out of love, confident, striving for purity of thought action and speech, cooperative, respectful, responsible, and trustworthy

[/quote]

I don't think your standards are too high. My husband reaches all the standards you listed. Every man should strive to have those values, and every good girl deserves that. :)

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#29

Well, re the alcohol issue, I hear you on that one except that I really don’t think it’s just men who “refuse to be responsible with alcohol” while in college. When I was in college I knew plenty of women who didn’t see any point in drinking if they were not going to get drunk. I have never had any wish to drink alcohol, and for most of my college life most people I met seemed to be flabbergasted and confused about this, that I just didn’t want to drink.

Well, I think that if you are expecting anyone to be a complete gentleman 100% of the time then you will always be disappointed because no one is perfect. However, it is quite another thing to want a man who agrees with you that the values you have listed are indeed valuable and who tries to live up to them. Especially in regard to purity of thought. It is one thing for a man to struggle with sexual sin and stumble at times, and yet another thing for a man to think that acting out sexually is “normal and healthy”. And I certainly don’t think it is asking too much of a man to be “not abusive” or to be faithful.

I think that perhaps what you need to do is evaluate what faults would really be deal-breakers for you. Your list is commendable but rather abstract and I think you need to make it more concrete. For example, would you reject any man who had a problem with porn, even if he was trying to control it? Many women would do so, but many wouldn’t.

I also think that if you have such high standards, then you need to accept that this means you will likely spend many Saturday nights alone, and not sit around feeling sorry for yourself and spending your time calling your girlfriends and griping about the lack of good men. I accepted this long ago since I knew that most people in my peer group (both men and women) saw nothing wrong with drinking alcohol for the express purpose of getting drunk, and simply could not understand why I didn’t want to do that. And for me, the not understanding part was really the deal breaker. I admit that my preference is for a man who doesn’t drink at all, but I wouldn’t reject a man just because he liked to, say, have a few beers on the weekends while watching football. As long as he could understand and respect my wish not to do so.

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#30

That is hilarious. My younger brother’s resume is a complete sham. He’s never worked a real job for more than enough time to find out it’s work and then manages to quit or even get fired. That said, mom gave him everything and that has been his fall. Now he’s a loser with money making a mockery of those who are really looking for a job. His job is acting like he’s looking for a job in a family of workers. We’re all still scratching our head wondering when this near 50 year old man will grow up. I wouldn’t recommend him to any woman. I might warn them to run, but he does a pretty good job of that on his own.

I can’ tell you how many frauds in my line of work that I “found out” pretty daug gone easy. If the people doing the hire knew what they were looking for they’d have known better. I would have done much better. But rather than fudge my resume I stuck to my guns and kept my integrity in tact. Now I’m in the middle of a career change that requires certification, not an option or preference.

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#31

[quote="PbloPicasso, post:30, topic:222005"]
That is hilarious. My younger brother's resume is a complete sham. He's never worked a real job for more than enough time to find out it's work and then manages to quit or even get fired. That said, mom gave him everything and that has been his fall. Now he's a loser with money making a mockery of those who are really looking for a job. His job is acting like he's looking for a job in a family of workers. We're all still scratching our head wondering when this near 50 year old man will grow up. I wouldn't recommend him to any woman. I might warn them to run, but he does a pretty good job of that on his own.

I can' tell you how many frauds in my line of work that I "found out" pretty daug gone easy. If the people doing the hire knew what they were looking for they'd have known better. I would have done much better. But rather than fudge my resume I stuck to my guns and kept my integrity in tact. Now I'm in the middle of a career change that requires certification, not an option or preference.

[/quote]

Are we in-laws soon to be ex- LOL???

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#32

An Authentic Gentleman- genuine, chivalrous, not arrogant or rude (as in at least tries to be charitable), not possessive, not the jealous type, not abusive, lovingly protective, faithful, willing to sacrifice out of love, confident, striving for purity of thought action and speech, cooperative, respectful, responsible, and trustworthy
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these are not too much in my opinion. Every good and responsible guy must possess all these qualities although some are more important than others. "striving for purity of thought action and speech" for example is very important but I would place "responsible" and "trustworthy" ahead of that

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#33

Huh, could be. My former commander used to say the locals were interbreeding for years. Of course my wife might agree with him after leaving and returning to visit family. :smiley:

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#34

[quote="Gloria1, post:32, topic:222005"]
An Authentic Gentleman- genuine, chivalrous, not arrogant or rude (as in at least tries to be charitable), not possessive, not the jealous type, not abusive, lovingly protective, faithful, willing to sacrifice out of love, confident, striving for purity of thought action and speech, cooperative, respectful, responsible, and trustworthy
Reply With Quote

these are not too much in my opinion. Every good and responsible guy must possess all these qualities although some are more important than others. "striving for purity of thought action and speech" for example is very important but I would place "responsible" and "trustworthy" ahead of that

[/quote]

I'd have to argue with you on that. Purity of thought is very important. but then someone that is responsible might see it fit to be pure at heart as well. I prefer purity over responsible. Can you trust someone that is not pure at heart...really? Can you be responsible if you fail to be pure at heart. I'm thinking in terms of what leads to eternity, not just this world, where people place more value on worldly things. Post something if you disagree.:shrug:

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#35

I'm 29. Still single. Never had a boyfriend. Never found the right fella.

You're just a youngin'! :D

You'll find the right fella, and don't lower your standards, they are perfectly reasonable. From the stories I've heard of friends and family, people tend to find their spouses when they're not really looking.

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#36

[quote="vera_dicere, post:35, topic:222005"]
I'm 29. Still single. Never had a boyfriend. Never found the right fella.

You're just a youngin'! :D

You'll find the right fella, and don't lower your standards, they are perfectly reasonable. From the stories I've heard of friends and family, people tend to find their spouses when they're not really looking.

[/quote]

I tell my nieces and nephews this: Choose your spouse carefully! Maybe you can divorce a bad spouse, but an "ex" is forever!!

My mother used to have people ask her when my brother was going to get married, as he was over 30 at that time. I said she should tell them he's decided to skip the lousy first marriage based on bad judgement, and going straight to the one that's going to work. And that is exactly what he did! He had seen too many friends sighing and swooning over each other before marriage and then at each other's thoats afterwards. He was determined to wait for the right one, and that is what he did! :thumbsup:

It is very hard to stay married in our times. The temptations telling us to bail out when things get hard are all around us. The number of people who have been wounded by their past and who have never tended to those wounds in a healthy way are legion. Many, many people out there looking to get married are not ready for what it will demand of them. Many will find the support for a lifelong commitment is lacking in the world around them.

If you meet someone who makes you throw away your list, great! Throw it away! Never "settle", though. Wait for someone for whom you would go to hell and back. It's not just worth it, it is the only way a sane person ought to even consider entering marriage in our times.

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#37

[quote="EasterJoy, post:36, topic:222005"]
It is very hard to stay married in our times. The temptations telling us to bail out when things get hard are all around us.

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Agreed. Even Catholics at this forum encouraged me to give up on my marriage. Sure glad I didn't listen to their advice because, a year later, my marriage is stronger than it's ever been. :shrug:

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#38

[quote="Augusta_Sans, post:37, topic:222005"]
Agreed. Even Catholics at this forum encouraged me to give up on my marriage. Sure glad I didn't listen to their advice because, a year later, my marriage is stronger than it's ever been. :shrug:

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I am so glad to hear it. I tried for another year. Made it another 10 months. I am glad that I tried though as the situation was intolerable and abusive. I feel though that because I gave my husband another chance - not carte blanche mind you (it came with stipulations such as counseling, mass attendance, etc.) - God rewarded me with the information I needed for my decree of nullity. I never had any idea. However, some situations are ridiculous and it takes both people wanting to work on it. At this point now that he as two married girlfriends there is nothing that could make me take him back because it has become fairly obvious that in addition to being abusive he has no regard for marriage his own or anyone elses. Pax et Bonum.

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#39

[quote="ToeInTheWater, post:29, topic:222005"]
Well, re the alcohol issue, I hear you on that one except that I really don't think it's just men who "refuse to be responsible with alcohol" while in college. When I was in college I knew plenty of women who didn't see any point in drinking if they were not going to get drunk. I have never had any wish to drink alcohol, and for most of my college life most people I met seemed to be flabbergasted and confused about this, that I just didn't want to drink.

Well, I think that if you are expecting anyone to be a complete gentleman 100% of the time then you will always be disappointed because no one is perfect. However, it is quite another thing to want a man who agrees with you that the values you have listed are indeed valuable and who tries to live up to them. Especially in regard to purity of thought. It is one thing for a man to struggle with sexual sin and stumble at times, and yet another thing for a man to think that acting out sexually is "normal and healthy". And I certainly don't think it is asking too much of a man to be "not abusive" or to be faithful.

I think that perhaps what you need to do is evaluate what faults would really be deal-breakers for you. Your list is commendable but rather abstract and I think you need to make it more concrete. For example, would you reject any man who had a problem with porn, even if he was trying to control it? Many women would do so, but many wouldn't.

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Pax Christi. Yes, I agree that I can't expect a man to meet each and every standard 100% of the time, but that he should striving to be that way despite when he falls. Part of why I'm not more concrete is that there are so many examples I can think of where these traits can be shown.

As far as the pornography struggle, I would have to pray about it, and discuss it with the man. A man who despite this problem is striving to overcome it, especially in this day and age would have a lot of respect from me.

I know that in the end, no marriage is going to fulfill us or be perfect, but that our fulfillment is found in Jesus. What St. Augustine says about our hearts being restless unti they rest in the Lord, is one of my favorite quotes. Sure, even loved ones stumble and get on our nerves, but love doesn't require that we be flawless. The song Love Is Not a Fight from the movie Fireproof really speaks to me.

"Love is not a place, where we can come and go as we please. It's the house we enter in and then commit to never leave. Love is shelter in a raging storm. Love is peace in the middle of a war and if we try to leave, my God send angels to guard the door. No love, is not a fight, but it's something worth fighting for."

Another requirement I have for a spouse is for a man who agrees that divorce is not an option. Till death do us part baby!

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#40

I would definitely keep high standards. I was twenty when I met my husband (I know, I was really an old maid! :p) and had just about given up on finding any man in the world who was a gentleman. I was really on strike from dating AT ALL.
Then I met my husband, who is 12 years older than me while we were both in the Air Force (speaking of which, joining the military, Peace Corps, or a mission ministry is actually the best place to find a husband!). He was so kind and sweet and wonderful that we were married in nine months. I fell head over heels in love with him, and 25 years later, still get tingles around him!
Make sure that your future husband treats you wonderfully, just as you deserve. Most college-aged boys are not yet ready to be husbands, IMHO.

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