Statue of the Blessed Virgin illegal in France


#1

bbc.com/news/world-europe-38196238

And to think that France was once called “the eldest daughter of the Church”…


#2

France seems to be going full on crazy these days. They banned a Down Syndrome advocacy commercial from TV because it could upset those that aborted children with Down Syndrome.

The ‘right’ to be spared from guilt


#3

Ehh. Doesn’t seem like a big deal. We’d have the same issues here with a religious statue erected on public land, paid for with public funds (and we’d likely have issues France doesn’t have, since we have a number of Protestant denominations that are less than sympathetic to the Catholic devotion to Mary).

I don’t think the French are going to be tearing down Notre Dame any time soon.


#4

This stems from the French Revolution and the subsequent passing of the 1905 French law of separation of church and state. Our Lady seems to have a special place in her heart for France, as there have been many significant apparitions. Our Lady apparently knew what was going to happen!

Saint Dominic, pray for us! (1208 apparition to St. Dominic Guzman in the Church of Prouille, who received the Rosary)
Our Lady of the Laus, pray for us! (1664 apparition to Benôite Rencurel)
Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal (1830 apparition to Catherine Laboure’)
Our Lady of LaSalette, pray for us! (1846 apparition to Melanie Mathieu and Maximin Giraud)
Our Lady of Lourdes, pray for us! (1858 apparition to Bernadette Soubirous)


#5

There seems to be such a fear of offending others and for defending the rights of everyone. But no one defends the rights of God or has any fear of offending Him or Our Lady. The Blessed Virgin represents deep love & respect for God, love of the unborn child and high moral values which won’t win her any popularity contest in today’s society. Sad, isn’t it? :frowning:


#6

The OP’s headline is a bit misleading. Statues of the Blessed Virgin are not “illegal” in France. France, which has disconnected the state and the church (just like us) has said that a religious work of art cannot be paid for with public money and erected on public land (just like us). I really don’t see the problem with this. It in no way interferes with the rights of the faithful (of any faith) to worship as they choose.

As to the “rights of God,” I really don’t understand that concept. Can God have “rights” within a legal system? I don’t get it. And, of course, any society that tries to grant “rights” to God will run into trouble. Who says who God is? Who determines what His “rights” are? I imagine French Jews might have a different take on this than French Catholics, or French Muslims.


#7

Who knows…had the Church and the conservative right of France not supported the unjust persecution of Alfred Dreyfus, perhaps things would have taken a different path.


#8

Well our pledge of allegiance says “One nation under God”, our money has “In God we trust” on it…does this not really mean anything legally?


#9

Those are mottos, not legal provisions.


#10

It doesn’t. The Pledge wasn’t written until some hundred years after the Constitution was written (and the “under God” words were added in the 1950s), and whatever it says on our money doesn’t mean anything legally (it also says “novus ordo seclorum” (“new order of the ages” – scary, right?).

No, it doesn’t mean anything legally. The Pledge, and the Declaration of Independence, and whatever Masonic mumbo-jumbo is on our money, are not the law of the land. The Constitution is. And it grants no “rights” to God.


#11

I’m surprised no one has ever challenged “In God we trust” on our coins as being against the principle of separation of church and state…Jesus held up a coin and said “whose likeness is this” and they replied “Caesars”…Jesus said…“give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar…and to God what belongs to God”…personally I like it on our coins…but in these days of political correctness who knows


#12

I just wanted to make a point that the Declaration of Independence is very clear on the existence of God and the phrase separation of church and state appears nowhere in the US Constitution. I think my biggest problem with what is going on in France is that they are inconsistent they allow nativity scenes on public property but somehow this is a problem. Luckily there are some places in France that are not very hostile toward religion like Alsace and Lorraine because they are still governed under the Napoleonic Code.


#13

Sure, but what the Declaration says doesn’t really matter, and although it’s true that the phrase “separation of church and state” doesn’t appear in the Constitution, it does say that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,” and the courts have found that public money spent on statutes or other displays in public places would appear to be an endorsement of a particular religious belief by the government, and so we don’t do that.

All in all, over the years, this has been quite good for the Catholic church.


#14

It’s been tried. Aronow v. United States. The Supreme Court refused to hear the case, letting stand the Court of Appeals’ ruling that there was no reason to remove “In God We Trust” from the currency.


#15

The first amendment of the Constitution of the US forbids the federal government from establishing a Nstional Religion as a protection of the States from incursion upon riights held by individual states
The States held all rights to create their own state religions which many did into the 19th century
The first incursion into religious rights by the federal government was the case against Utah and they ruled since Utah was a territory they were not protected by the establishment clause.
I contend the 20th century Supreme Court ruling violate the first amendment as they impose a state sponsored atheism on the sovereign states in direct contradiction to the intent of the amendment.


#16

Maybe because Christmas is so secularized and commercialized that the idea that Christmas is about the birth of Our Savior is foreign.


#17

Yes when walmart instructs its greeters not to say “God bless you”, but then has no problem ‘celebrating’ Christmas to the fullest extent possible…kind of makes you laugh.

Imo, the modern ‘Christmas’ in the form we see today, is extremely blasphemous, its basically a big orgy of greed.


#18

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