Status on Unification


#1

Does anyone know how close or far we are from being united again with the Greek Orthodox? Has there been any new updates or meetings with them? Same question goes for the Lutheran church.


#2

Nothing doing as far as I know. A Vatican spokesperson did say recently that if Lutherans wanted to participate in communion with the Church and set up an ‘ordinariate’ similar to the ‘Anglican ordinariate’ they would have to get organised and present their request to the Church as the Anglicans did. The Church will not be actively engaging setting it up.

As for the Orthodox, there is a lot of talk about talk but I think it won’t happen in my lifetime.

There are many possibilities maybe even the re-establishment of the 5 Sees 5 Sees (Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria and Jerusalem), each with their own Patriarch in communion with Rome.


#3

With Lutherans, I don’t think there has been remarkable movement lately, except for the recent talk in Rome about the idea of a Lutheran Ordinariate. I don’t know how realistic that is at this point.

Jon


#4

[quote="JonNC, post:3, topic:304236"]
With Lutherans, I don't think there has been remarkable movement lately, except for the recent talk in Rome about the idea of a Lutheran Ordinariate. I don't know how realistic that is at this point.

Jon

[/quote]

It has been said that for some Lutherans, they are always at the door of Rome knocking to be let in and allowed to commune.


#5

[quote="hn160, post:4, topic:304236"]
It has been said that for some Lutherans, they are always at the door of Rome knocking to be let in and allowed to commune.

[/quote]

Well, the knocking should be both ways. Seeking unity should be a goal for all of us. It has to be an honest unity, however.

Jon


#6

Not gonna happen.The Orthodox are simply not going to recognise the supposed authority claimed by Rome, thats all there is to it. Nor will we conceded of the filioque or much else which makes us differ.


#7

[quote="IgnatianPhilo, post:6, topic:304236"]
Not gonna happen.The Orthodox are simply not going to recognise the supposed authority claimed by Rome, thats all there is to it..

[/quote]

Yes, I was thinking along the same thing. I know relatively little about the Orthodox, but they seem to be divided into "denominations" according to nationality e.g. the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox hierarchies are independent of one another and there is no central authority such as the Holy See.

If so, then giving up this millenia old tradition will not come easily.


#8

[quote="Dale_M, post:7, topic:304236"]
Yes, I was thinking along the same thing. I know relatively little about the Orthodox, but they seem to be divided into "denominations" according to nationality e.g. the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox hierarchies are independent of one another and there is no central authority such as the Holy See.

If so, then giving up this millenia old tradition will not come easily.

[/quote]

They are not denominations any more than the Melkite Catholic Church and Ruthenian Catholic Church are denominations of Roman Catholicism. They are separate jurisdictions.


#9

I haven't heard of anything recently, although it's something we should always pray for. The blog Called to Communion regularly posts ecumenical news here if you're interested: calledtocommunion.com/category/unity_/

  • Leah

#10

[quote="Cavaradossi, post:8, topic:304236"]
They are not denominations any more than the Melkite Catholic Church and Ruthenian Catholic Church are denominations of Roman Catholicism. They are separate jurisdictions.

[/quote]

Yes, thank you. I didn't know what term to use, which is why I put the word "denominations" in quotes.:blush:

I very much appreciate the correction, and will try to remember the correct term.


#11

Suffice it to say if there ever is substantial progress in uniting the Orthodox and the Roman communion, it'll be big enough news that you won't need to ask about it here. :)


#12

In my personal opinion...if it ever does happen, it will not be for a very very very long time. The monks at Mount Athos will NOT convert to the Catholic faith, they are known for their rock-hard Orthodox beliefs and are pretty anti-ecumenical. Without the Mount Athos monks, most of the Orthodox world will not convert either. They want the Catholics to convert to Orthodoxy and they don't believe that there is any other way around it because they don't believe that Catholic beliefs can be reconciled to Orthodoxy. This may be a harsher way of putting it and may lay more on the extreme ends, but it's just what I've begun to realize from learning about the subject.


#13

Rome is ready for a Lutheran Ordinate.

The rest of Protestantism will unit within our life time.

Mother Mary will unite us all, she is already accumulating an army here on earth.


#14

[quote="Dale_M, post:10, topic:304236"]
Yes, thank you. I didn't know what term to use, which is why I put the word "denominations" in quotes.:blush:

I very much appreciate the correction, and will try to remember the correct term.

[/quote]

If it makes you feel any better when I was in Greece a monk asked me what denomination of Orthodoxy I was from.:D


#15

No, you’re right. We aren’t going to mass convert to Catholicism (the ‘uniate’ model). That avenue has been abandoned by the Catholic Church. Union will come by another way.


#16

Don’t hold your breath. We’re further apart that we would like to admit (Catholics and Orthodox).


#17

Not to be a party spoiler or anything, but this won’t happen. It’s not like the entire Anglican Church reunited with the Catholic Church upon establishment of the Anglican Ordinariate. There will be Lutherans returning to the Catholic Church, but a vast majority will stay where they are. They are happy with the liberalism they have today. At most I would think that they will just die off as denominations in the future, but for sure many will not reunite.


#18

Not all of us are liberal.

Jon


#19

[quote="JonNC, post:18, topic:304236"]
Not all of us are liberal.

Jon

[/quote]

Of course not. That is what I am saying, those who are conservative will probably take the deal. But that itself is not a guarantee, but the conservative ones are more likely to take a deal, as with the Anglicans. The liberal ones won't take the deal no matter what. So an Ordinariate isn't really an indication of union. It is just a way for those who feel they want to go to the Catholic Church to keep their particular traditions. But not everyone is joining the Ordinariate.


#20

Agreed. However, what’s curious is that, within Lutheranism, it is the liberals who have at the forefront of dialogue with Rome - The JDDJ, etc. (even though I’m a conservative who approves of it).
My point is the “sell” to conservatives has a higher bar since we tend to be more strident about the confessions. I think it makes Lutherans a bit different than Anglicans.

Jon


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