you can reject me all you want. I choose, out of love for God, to live as God has asked me to which is to love him with my whole heart, my whole soul, and my whole mind and my neighbor as myself. All I can do is love you enough to tell you that you can be saved and here is the path to salvation all spelled out for you by God himself. Beyond that, it’s all up to you. So you can go for the sure bet or to gamble on the longshot.
Do you think Jesus was silly when he taught about hell?
Who was more loving than Jesus?
Hey Lucy how are you? Firstly I think your asking a good question if I’m hearing you correctly. It’s that “how can God, who is all love send someone to hell for eternity for things done in this life? That seems unjust.” If I got it right I would answer in this way. God doesn’t want anyone to go to hell. Some people however are so obstinate that they reject God and by default end up there. God is Goodness, love, growth, order… He wants us to love Him (goodness) and each other in heaven for all eternity. Think of a school. It’s a good school that takes care of its students. The teachers are great, there are fun activities… just a nice place to be. Sometimes the other students make mistakes sure, but on the whole everyone is getting along, and good to each other. Now one or two students think it’s a great idea to just punch a fellow student in the head. No real reason, they just think it’s funny. The teacher disciplines the student to correct the behavior, but also to protect the other students. After being disciplined the student does it again. Then again. “Don’t tell me what to do”. “Don’t impose your worldview on me!” “A psychologist on tv told me I have a genetic predisposition to punching and YOU are denying me my biology!” The teachers and schoolmaster finally, after many, many, many, attempts to help this child, remove him from school. You simply can’t have students threatened in school every day. That isn’t just. They don’t want to, but they must maintain a loving environment.
This is obviously a simplistic example, but in a way it’s how I view God, trying to help us every which way. But we need to adapt to goodness, to grow, to learn. If we do this heaven awaits. If we just say “no I’m going to keep punching people and no one can tell me to stop” then eventually the school can’t keep us there. That is what sin is in a way. Being kicked out of school means your on the street with no protection, no future, no help. This isn’t what God wants at all, but again Heaven is a place of goodness, a place of purity, love, and order. If they let in people to hurt others then it wouldn’t be that way anymore. Do keep wrestling with questions and look to seek a God, you may find that He us more of what your looking for than you maybe think, I know I always have. Best regards, praying for you as well.
If somebody knows what the Church actually teaches God to be and they reject that, then they’re not gonna go to heaven because they’re rejecting God. It doesn’t matter what they believe God actually is, they’re rejecting God with full knowledge and consent, and are thus committing grave sin.
God doesn’t send people to hell. People send themselves to hell. Also as my wise mom once said, “Hell starts on Earth.” So suppose you’re doing the “stupid act of having sex” in the wrong context, right? Well, I assume it will be worse off for you personally because your conscience will tell you that an intimate act in a non-intimate setting feels so out of place and just…miserable. That’s why we say so-and-so situation “felt like hell.”
I was going to say something but just listen to Littany, very wise response. Just know hell is not all fire and brimstone, it is eternal separation from God and that we can choose with free will. Gods desire is for all to be saved and for no one to be separated from His love, but unfortunately some do choose to be separated from Him and I believe it breaks His heart.
We know of prisoners who have done heinous crimes who have sincerely repented of those crimes, even with no chance of parole.
The notion that every single solitary person in Hell refuses to see the errors of their ways is not only unprovable, not only in defiance of what we experience, but is generated from whole cloth due to questions like the OP asks.
Those people can change their hearts. The heart of a person is fixed upon death, and those who reject God will always reject God.
And you know this how? I think @Delusioned is spot on saying that this is claimed not via evidence but as a way to try and set aside doubts why someone would be punished infinitely.
That’s (according to my knowledge) what the Church teaches.
Do you know how the Church came to that conclusion?
Judgement happens right after you die, and those that die in a state of rejecting God and His love will thus do such in judgment. That’s what the Church teaches, through Magisterium.
I’ll ask again, how did the Church come to this conclusion? We know of people who have rejected the idea that God is real and then later believed it to be true. Why can this not occur after death?
Yes, and the real torment of hell is simply the very separation from God that is chosen by the person.
And the concept of Purgatory or a final place of purification has been pretty much held by the Church in both the east and the west in one form or another, by one name or another, since time immemorial.
Going to hell separates you from God’s grace because those in hell do not want it. Without God’s grace, we cannot turn to Him because the brokenness of our sins grows and absorbs us until our broken and sinful human nature is all we are, devoid of any good.
Hell is like a deep pit. Sure, one could climb out, but those in the pit refused any rope for climbing when they put themselves there.
Not a single person who committed a sin condemning them to Hell would ever want God’s grace? Not a one?
And the Church knows this how? Even if true (which it’s not), a good person gives other people all the opportunities needed to make up for their errors. You’re saying that God only displays this goodness for a limited period of time, even though God is infinite and it would not cause God to expend any effort or energy to allow a post-Hell contrition.
In order for an analogy to work it has to make a lick of sense. Sure sometimes people will put themselves into a pit, but at least some of them will later want to get out of that pit. But in your analogy not a single person would ever have a regret, even though there isn’t a person alive who is devoid of regrets or only understood the consequences of their actions only after encountering those consequences.
Nope. God’s grace and love are what they’re trying to get away from.
God gives us a whole lifetime to turn to Him, and a literally unlimited pool of grace and opportunities to repent and come back. Without that grace, our souls are starved. Without grace to resist the desires of the flesh, the flesh always wins and leaves the person without ability to fight their bodily wants.
Again, they’re deprived of anything that would make them regret their decision to abandon God. They have no grace with which they could order themselves towards God.
It just dawned on me, reading this thread… this is pretty much why people go to hell, & stay there. They do not want to hear the truth, convinced of their own interpretation. They refuse the Church because they do not recognize Christ. The refuse the Eucharist because they do not recognize Christ.
Now I used to believe that as long as I was a good person & served my neighbor I’d go to heaven. As long as I believed in Jesus & recognized God is love. All the rest was just too complicated for me. This denomination, that denomination. This tradition… no tradition (which is a tradition in itself).
Now, I realize I was “scattered in my conceit.” I was serving my idea of God, my idea of love… basically i made myself a god.
The answer is God does not send anyone to hell. We send ourselves by rejecting His love.
Its not like God says “surprise, you are going to hell!” We actively chose it through not following the rules God gives us (more then rules, it is to love God).
God in His infinite mercy gives us opportunities to accept His love again when we fall from it (thank you for that God!!) but we have to accept it
Well the irony of this is that my cousin has been married for 15 years, has 3 children and would never “reject” God’s love. But he just happens to be Gay, so by some insane people’s standards he is doomed to hell. /rolls eyes. Common sense reveals that’s just not true in my opinion.