Strange Nondenominational Argument


#1

Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that “[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today”, implying that it couldn’t be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?


#2

[quote="Flyte, post:1, topic:303608"]
Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that "[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today", implying that it couldn't be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?

[/quote]

The Catholic Church is one, holy, catholic and apostolic. :)
ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churb2.htm


#3

[quote="Flyte, post:1, topic:303608"]
Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that "[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today", implying that it couldn't be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?

[/quote]

actually, she made quite an outlandish claim when she did that. there are all kinds of things that you could have countered with, all of it duly documented and historically accurate. to narrow it down and to place the burden of proof where it belongs, you should have just asked her what evidence she could possibly have to support such a claim.


#4

[quote="Flyte, post:1, topic:303608"]
Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that "[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today", implying that it couldn't be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?

[/quote]

When someone puts something like this before me I always, "Could you give me an example of ...." It is a good way to see if the person is actually thinking or merely reacting in an emotional manner to something.

A most important point here is to not try to make any "points". Listen to the person and give them a chance to run out of steam.

Also, I would ask you, "How well do you know your Catholic Church history?" The more you know the more confident you will walk.

Will you be having more conversations with this person or is your inquiry seeking to prepare yourself for future encounters with other people?

God bless


#5

Tell her that heretical sects have broken with Rome, (except the Orthodox) but Rome is not in communion with them. Therefore these sects are not catholic


#6

[quote="Flyte, post:1, topic:303608"]
Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that "[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today", implying that it couldn't be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?

[/quote]

"Thanks for your opinion. Do you have any facts/sources to back up your claims?"


#7

I would of said “Protestants make crazy claims about Catholics and vice versa., when at the end of the day we agree on much more than we disagree”.


#8

Such pro-Catholic arguments!: Believe or else!

Please don't get mad at me... Or destroy me... there are many non-Catholics who just want answers. I was once Lutheran and now Catholic... so, let me comment...

Mutated?

Well? Maybe, or is it just that our Church is constantly re-defining itself to our times? You can read the King James version all you want and say it's the "right Bible." Yet, it still has been translated from Latin, and Greek, Arabic and so on... we all want a version we understand. Mutation it seems to me corrisponds to the ever increasing change in language. RSV: NIV: NAB with our some added Old Testiment chapters? Even the Catholic Church has graduated from Latin in many areas... meaning change.

Change.

Fundamentalist Churches "swear" by the KJ. Because it's the best. It's a great Bible, but even that has been translated. There are other faiths who see it that way, too... like Islam. OUr way is the right way for we have the RIGHT bible! It's a question that goes round and round... and ultimately leads to one area?

Who's true? Good question...

There was another area that was just like that. Jesus. Did he die on the Cross and stayed dead, or did He rise? No matter how you look at it, it happened in the past and we can't go back to that time to prove it, no matter the writings. Yet, we believe our of something called Faith.

So, Faith also encompasses another area. Catholism. Did the Catholic Church mutate from it's original beginnings? If you want to look at it so critically... well you fall into a trap that we all get into. Who's right and who is wrong... a perfect breading ground Satan likes. And, that is what created this skism between all us Christians in the first place.

I can tell you why I like the Catholic Faith? No "rif-raf."

It's old... been around for a very long time, 2000 years... and where other religions failed... it survived big time... and protestants branched off of it. One giant tree! It must mean something?

Catholism, though, has a governing body that is as old as 200 AD. It's called Holy Orders. These guys have been laying hands down, supernaturally, so many countless times, and even though there are some dark spots in history for this Church, it still has survived to now.

Yes, supernaturally, for the meaning of the word means beyond natural... into realms we can not see... into the spiritual and beyond reality. Even believing in Christ as a personal savious means you beleive in something supernatural. So, why not Our Churches

Not bad! Especially for what was once a cult and is now as mainstream Faith. So, how did it get that way. How did it survive for so long? Because it's true. Nothing can survive that long. Protestants and Catholics a like, we survived.

So, why me Catholic when I was Protestant. I asked St Mary to Pray for me and it worked. I don't take that lightly. So, I had to look at where I was and where I am now, too.

What do I trust in? A branch or the trunk of the tree? For me Catholism is the trunk of the tree. No matter how mutated you might think it is... in those ideas... everything is mutated... for it's easier to pull apart something no one sees than to put in hope on something that the world can't prove.

I graduated as a scientist and I like to see things as facts. Theoleogy goes beyond our science. But, as for me, I would rather trust in something a lot older.

Mutated. A worldly term showing a lot of changes... but you must understand that the Holy Orders (majestarium) over the centuries (good and bad) is still dedicated to one goal. The preservation of the Christian Faith. That means that something that old has meaning.

Personally, I would rather trust in something that old than trusting in anything else. It doesn't mean that I have abandoned my Protestant beliefs. It just means that I deserve to see everything as broad as I can... all in understanding one of the most important things in my life.

My Christian Faith.:)


#9

[quote="Entangled, post:8, topic:303608"]
Such pro-Catholic arguments!: Believe or else!

Please don't get mad at me... Or destroy me... there are many non-Catholics who just want answers. I was once Lutheran and now Catholic... so, let me comment...

Mutated?

Well? Maybe, or is it just that our Church is constantly re-defining itself to our times? You can read the King James version all you want and say it's the "right Bible." Yet, it still has been translated from Latin, and Greek, Arabic and so on... we all want a version we understand. Mutation it seems to me corrisponds to the ever increasing change in language. RSV: NIV: NAB** with our some added Old Testiment chapters?** Even the Catholic Church has graduated from Latin in many areas... meaning change.

[/quote]

Uhmmm Actually it is not that the Catholic Church that added anything to the Bible, rather that during the reformation 7 books were removed.
Those 7 books were originally included in the KJ prior to the reformation.
God is having the last word on that as now it seems some fragments of the sea scrolls are indeed from some of the books removed.
Is there any wonder that the reformation is undergoing another reformation and many are rejoining with their thrue Mother? The Holy Apostolic Catholic Church!


#10

[quote="Entangled, post:8, topic:303608"]

Personally, I would rather trust in something that old than trusting in anything else. It doesn't mean that I have abandoned my Protestant beliefs. It just means that I deserve to see everything as broad as I can... all in understanding one of the most important things in my life.

My Christian Faith.:)

[/quote]

I think you need to have a talk with your priest. :shrug:


#11

[quote="Flyte, post:1, topic:303608"]
Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that "[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today", implying that it couldn't be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?

[/quote]

By asking for historical documentation.
Of course that might have accelerated your breakup.


#12

[quote="JustaServant, post:11, topic:303608"]
By asking for historical documentation.
Of course that might have accelerated your breakup.

[/quote]

Perhaps not.

Asking for documentation is a fine tactic. As a protestant, she may produce something from Luther or Calvin with its extended scriptural quotation and anti-papal vitriol. In that case, be gentle with her.

But don't count your chickies before they're hatched.

She could just as easily show up with a copy of the canons and decrees of the first seven Ecumenical Councils. You know, the very foundational documents of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The Creed, the Canon of Holy Scripture, stuff like that. The very cannons and decrees that were proclaimed publicly, in front of God and everybody, by the sitting Bishops of Rome, from the very Chair of Saint Peter.

No problem? OK. But what do you do when the other foot drops? When she whips out the current Catechism of the Catholic Church, and asks you to reconcile them?

=====================================

So from the top:

When she says:

"...the Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today...".

Just be honest and diplomatic. Smile warmly and respond:

"...the Catholic Church is no MORE mutilated than any other church today..."

Then get on with the evening.

Good luck Jim.

'Sakya


#13

[quote="Kirovsakya, post:12, topic:303608"]
Perhaps not.

Asking for documentation is a fine tactic. As a protestant, she may produce something from Luther or Calvin with its extended scriptural quotation and anti-papal vitriol. In that case, be gentle with her.

But don't count your chickies before they're hatched.

She could just as easily show up with a copy of the canons and decrees of the first seven Ecumenical Councils. You know, the very foundational documents of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The Creed, the Canon of Holy Scripture, stuff like that. The very cannons and decrees that were proclaimed publicly, in front of God and everybody, by the sitting Bishops of Rome, from the very Chair of Saint Peter.

No problem? OK. But what do you do when the other foot drops? When she whips out the current Catechism of the Catholic Church, and asks you to reconcile them?

=====================================

So from the top:

When she says:

Just be honest and diplomatic. Smile warmly and respond:

Then get on with the evening.

Good luck Jim.

'Sakya

[/quote]

:rotfl:
That's one way. Been a long time for me, but some guys will agree with almost anything if the girl is pretty enough.
I remember when I was young I agreed with one girl that Barry Manilow was a good singer. :eek:
:D


#14

[quote="Flyte, post:1, topic:303608"]
Back when I was dating my now-exgirlfriend, who is a nondenominational christian, she once tried to claim that "[t]he Catholic Church is no less mutated than any other church today", implying that it couldn't be called the original Christian church.
I was quite surprised, and unsure of how to respond.

How should I have responded?

[/quote]

Flyte,

The first question should be...

What do you mean mutated? Explain that to me the date and issues over which the Church mutated, and give me examples.

This will give you insight into the thinking she has and probable errors in thinking.

If you respond then you have no idea what you are responding to.


#15

[quote="JustaServant, post:13, topic:303608"]
:rotfl:
That's one way. Been a long time for me, but some guys will agree with almost anything if the girl is pretty enough.
I remember when I was young I agreed with one girl that Barry Manilow was a good singer. :eek:
:D

[/quote]

YOU DA MAN!

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:


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