Strange "Order" of nuns


#1

Since joining this website and several others to do with the Catholic faith (I am wondering about starting RCIA) I have made some nice email friends who I chat to through emails ans Skype and who encourage me. Personally I don’t think I have a vocation to religious life, but one of my new friends told me she was discerning with a small order and I was pleased for her.

But more she told me, the more I think it is strange. (Sorry if I don’t express myself correctly, it’s late here and I’ve not been well.) They all live in one house and wear a habit (she showed me photos) and work with the poor in the local area but don’t have any regard for the Pope (they say they don’t need his permission to do good works and he shouldn’t control their lives as they all have consciences) and don’t go to a normal Catholic church. She said they have their own chapel and priest who comes to them.

I asked if they have a website but she said no. She emailed me some details about the “founders” and it seems are brother and sister, the priest and lady “Mother” who runs the house and all the nuns.

This doesn’t seem right, does it? My friend said she heard of them as they live in the next town to her and she is considering going to live with them.

But they can’t be nuns if just one priest (probably not a genuine priest?) decides they are to be called nuns. They don’t even seem to be part of SSPX or other groups, just a house of women.

I want my friend to be happy and she always sounds happy when we chat on Skype about joining them but is this an unhealthy group to be involved with? She is in Eastern Europe. Are there other groups like this “order”? If it doesn’t have any outside input, is there a risk the women could be abused or exploited in some way?

Excuse my ignorance of any Catholic teachings on religious orders/priests etc.


#2

Without knowing much about this particular order, they sound like a schismatic group. That is, one that has broken away from the Catholic faith. Most orders of nuns have at least a surface respect for the pope, and they certainly follow the moral teachings of the Church. If you're thinking of joining the Catholic Church, you may want to find out more about this order before you get too invested in it. God bless.


#3

[quote="OxygenMan, post:2, topic:312871"]
Without knowing much about this particular order, they sound like a schismatic group. That is, one that has broken away from the Catholic faith. Most orders of nuns have at least a surface respect for the pope, and they certainly follow the moral teachings of the Church. If you're thinking of joining the Catholic Church, you may want to find out more about this order before you get too invested in it. God bless.

[/quote]

It's not me who is thinking of joining. I know that to be a Catholic I couldn't possibly have anything to do with this group but I appreciate your explanation and your advice. Should I continue to pray for my friend to find a genuine Catholic order if she believes she has a vocation?


#4

[quote="miyuki, post:3, topic:312871"]
It's not me who is thinking of joining. I know that to be a Catholic I couldn't possibly have anything to do with this group but I appreciate your explanation and your advice. Should I continue to pray for my friend to find a genuine Catholic order if she believes she has a vocation?

[/quote]

Certainly. Perhaps pray a Rosary for her or perhaps pray for her at Mass (anyone can attend Mass, but non-Catholics are not to recieve the Eucharist, just so you know.)


#5

[quote="miyuki, post:1, topic:312871"]
Since joining this website and several others to do with the Catholic faith (I am wondering about starting RCIA) I have made some nice email friends who I chat to through emails ans Skype and who encourage me. Personally I don't think I have a vocation to religious life, but one of my new friends told me she was discerning with a small order and I was pleased for her.

But more she told me, the more I think it is strange. (Sorry if I don't express myself correctly, it's late here and I've not been well.) They all live in one house and wear a habit (she showed me photos) and work with the poor in the local area but don't have any regard for the Pope (they say they don't need his permission to do good works and he shouldn't control their lives as they all have consciences) and don't go to a normal Catholic church. She said they have their own chapel and priest who comes to them.

I asked if they have a website but she said no. She emailed me some details about the "founders" and it seems are brother and sister, the priest and lady "Mother" who runs the house and all the nuns.

This doesn't seem right, does it? My friend said she heard of them as they live in the next town to her and she is considering going to live with them.

But they can't be nuns if just one priest (probably not a genuine priest?) decides they are to be called nuns. They don't even seem to be part of SSPX or other groups, just a house of women.

I want my friend to be happy and she always sounds happy when we chat on Skype about joining them but is this an unhealthy group to be involved with? She is in Eastern Europe. Are there other groups like this "order"? If it doesn't have any outside input, is there a risk the women could be abused or exploited in some way?

Excuse my ignorance of any Catholic teachings on religious orders/priests etc.

[/quote]

I can't answer all the questions you asked but I do know that it is normal for cloistered nuns to have a chapel in their monastery, and a priest will come and celebrate there Mass everyday. A priest comes to the monastery because these particular type of sisters are cloistered, which means they live in a gated area and do not ever leave except for medical reasons. Carmelites are like this, among other orders of nuns. However even nuns like this must remain obedient to the Church and the Pope. What are the names of the founders?


#6

[quote="LilyPearls, post:5, topic:312871"]
I can't answer all the questions you asked but I do know that it is normal for cloistered nuns to have a chapel in their monastery, and a priest will come and celebrate there Mass everyday. A priest comes to the monastery because these particular type of sisters are cloistered, which means they live in a gated area and do not ever leave except for medical reasons. Carmelites are like this, among other orders of nuns. However even nuns like this must remain obedient to the Church and the Pope. What are the names of the founders?

[/quote]

They aren't obediant to the Church or Pope, as my friend told me. She said the teachings of the founders and the Bible are the most important things. Their names are Tatiana and Bartolomej Cerny. I looked online but found nothing. My friend said that the brother wasn't an actual Catholic priest but did the same things as they do.

It all sounds very strange to me.


#7

[quote="miyuki, post:1, topic:312871"]
They all live in one house and wear a habit (she showed me photos) and work with the poor in the local area but don't have any regard for the Pope (they say they don't need his permission to do good works and he shouldn't control their lives as they all have consciences) and don't go to a normal Catholic church. She said they have their own chapel and priest who comes to them..

[/quote]

What is their relationship with the diocese and its bishop? I think that would be the telling matter.


#8

[quote="miyuki, post:6, topic:312871"]
They aren't obediant to the Church or Pope, as my friend told me. She said the teachings of the founders and the Bible are the most important things. Their names are Tatiana and Bartolomej Cerny. I looked online but found nothing. My friend said that the brother wasn't an actual Catholic priest but did the same things as they do.

It all sounds very strange to me.

[/quote]

hmmm: a quick google search returned that "Bartolomej Cerny" is with the OFM the Franciscan Order of Minor Brothers at their convent in Liberec, (CZ)
They ARE obbedient to the Church and the Pope.

I am posting the link:

ofm.cz/dokumenty/ostatni/1-obecne/58-zpravy-z-kapitulniho-kongresu


#9

[quote="miyuki, post:1, topic:312871"]
Since joining this website and several others to do with the Catholic faith (I am wondering about starting RCIA) I have made some nice email friends who I chat to through emails ans Skype and who encourage me. Personally I don't think I have a vocation to religious life, but one of my new friends told me she was discerning with a small order and I was pleased for her.

But more she told me, the more I think it is strange. (Sorry if I don't express myself correctly, it's late here and I've not been well.) They all live in one house and wear a habit (she showed me photos) and work with the poor in the local area but don't have any regard for the Pope (they say they don't need his permission to do good works and he shouldn't control their lives as they all have consciences) and don't go to a normal Catholic church. She said they have their own chapel and priest who comes to them.

I asked if they have a website but she said no. She emailed me some details about the "founders" and it seems are brother and sister, the priest and lady "Mother" who runs the house and all the nuns.

This doesn't seem right, does it? My friend said she heard of them as they live in the next town to her and she is considering going to live with them.

But they can't be nuns if just one priest (probably not a genuine priest?) decides they are to be called nuns. They don't even seem to be part of SSPX or other groups, just a house of women.

I want my friend to be happy and she always sounds happy when we chat on Skype about joining them but is this an unhealthy group to be involved with? She is in Eastern Europe. Are there other groups like this "order"? If it doesn't have any outside input, is there a risk the women could be abused or exploited in some way?

Excuse my ignorance of any Catholic teachings on religious orders/priests etc.

[/quote]

Swim the Tiber! The waters are warm and healing!

New communities begin as lay associations which are permitted religious names, distinctive garb/uniform, and common living quarters.

They have to use prudence where contacting their local bishop is concerned, though. I advise founders to send a hand-written note via registered mail to the Chancellor (since they field the questions and share info with the bishop), explaining what they are doing, but they may not stay in the diocese due to the resources that come to the group.

Wearing a habit indoors is permitted. They are in a time of experimentation and they have to figure out what works for them.

The community in question sounds as if they are contemplative-active.

The only thing I don't like is their attitude toward the pope. If they can tone that down, they would have a free conscience to develop their association.

Blessings,
Cloisters


#10

[quote="JerryZ, post:8, topic:312871"]
hmmm: a quick google search returned that "Bartolomej Cerny" is with the OFM the Franciscan Order of Minor Brothers at their convent in Liberec, (CZ)
They ARE obbedient to the Church and the Pope.

I am posting the link:

ofm.cz/dokumenty/ostatni/1-obecne/58-zpravy-z-kapitulniho-kongresu

[/quote]

That's not the same person as it is in Moldova, not the Czech Republic where my friend lives. I hope that they have told the bishop about themselves so they can be recognised but as others said, their attitude to the Pope and Rome and the Catholic Church in general seems very negative and I think that would be a big hurdle to get over if they want to get more vocations and get approval.

Until they do, isn't it a bit strange that they wear their habit outside of their house? I didn't think you were supposed to do that. And they call each other Mother, Sister, Father etc.


#11

It not the community of St Anna is it whom I just found last night when looking? I have my doubts and sent and email asking more about did she need to obtain permission from the Church etc. After all a Blessing from her Priest/Pastor to go out and listen to folk under mixed benedictine ruling, a lot of priests/pastors would bless her to do this but does it make her community any more viable. I be interested on what you guys have to say here because I am beginning researching on setting up a community that would be non residential but 100% connected with the the Anglican Church in that I am Anglican but it be multi denominational but I believe with this day an age it is important to get all the ground works done first and I have a specific objective but it is carrying them out etc and know I would need the Bishop's Support etc and doing all kinds of checks that official communities do is important though it is how they are done that is equally important and just wondered if anyone here has tried to start up anything under the name commuity or religious order etc. I know from reading Little Flowers - the Franiscans how it was back then and He Catholic. But if anyone has any ideas how to make it all well thought out and proper so I be properly listened to and for the process to start. Is it possible even to have a religious order of just one person - even if just to get it going ?:thumbsup:


#12

[quote="englishredrose, post:11, topic:312871"]
It not the community of St Anna is it whom I just found last night when looking? I have my doubts and sent and email asking more about did she need to obtain permission from the Church etc. After all a Blessing from her Priest/Pastor to go out and listen to folk under mixed benedictine ruling, a lot of priests/pastors would bless her to do this but does it make her community any more viable. I be interested on what you guys have to say here because I am beginning researching on setting up a community that would be non residential but 100% connected with the the Anglican Church in that I am Anglican but it be multi denominational but I believe with this day an age it is important to get all the ground works done first and I have a specific objective but it is carrying them out etc and know I would need the Bishop's Support etc and doing all kinds of checks that official communities do is important though it is how they are done that is equally important and just wondered if anyone here has tried to start up anything under the name commuity or religious order etc. I know from reading Little Flowers - the Franiscans how it was back then and He Catholic. But if anyone has any ideas how to make it all well thought out and proper so I be properly listened to and for the process to start. Is it possible even to have a religious order of just one person - even if just to get it going ?:thumbsup:

[/quote]

I sent you a PM.

Blessings,
Cloisters


#13

[quote="miyuki, post:10, topic:312871"]
That's not the same person as it is in Moldova, not the Czech Republic where my friend lives. I hope that they have told the bishop about themselves so they can be recognised but as others said, their attitude to the Pope and Rome and the Catholic Church in general seems very negative and I think that would be a big hurdle to get over if they want to get more vocations and get approval.

Until they do, isn't it a bit strange that they wear their habit outside of their house? I didn't think you were supposed to do that. And they call each other Mother, Sister, Father etc.

[/quote]

Yes, they need to get rid of the anti-Catholic rhetoric. What is their point of associating if they're going to do that?

Is it really a habit or is it distinctive garb/uniform? Habits outside the house without a letter from the bishop outlining what works for them is a huge no-no.

I for one would begin with the group. "What i'm hearing tears at my heart as a Catholic. What are you trying to convey?" Perhaps they don't know that they're coming across like that.

Blessings,
Cloisters


#14

[quote="Cloisters, post:12, topic:312871"]
I sent you a PM.

Blessings,
Cloisters

[/quote]

Thank you :thumbsup:
It given me other links too which not found else where so thanks for the info


#15

[quote="englishredrose, post:11, topic:312871"]
It not the community of St Anna is it whom I just found last night when looking? I have my doubts and sent and email asking more about did she need to obtain permission from the Church etc. After all a Blessing from her Priest/Pastor to go out and listen to folk under mixed benedictine ruling, a lot of priests/pastors would bless her to do this but does it make her community any more viable. I be interested on what you guys have to say here because I am beginning researching on setting up a community that would be non residential but 100% connected with the the Anglican Church in that I am Anglican but it be multi denominational but I believe with this day an age it is important to get all the ground works done first and I have a specific objective but it is carrying them out etc and know I would need the Bishop's Support etc and doing all kinds of checks that official communities do is important though it is how they are done that is equally important and just wondered if anyone here has tried to start up anything under the name commuity or religious order etc. I know from reading Little Flowers - the Franiscans how it was back then and He Catholic. But if anyone has any ideas how to make it all well thought out and proper so I be properly listened to and for the process to start. Is it possible even to have a religious order of just one person - even if just to get it going ?:thumbsup:

[/quote]

No, it's not that order either. I worry that its easy to set up a bogus "convent" or "order"


#16

[quote="miyuki, post:15, topic:312871"]
No, it's not that order either. I worry that its easy to set up a bogus "convent" or "order"

[/quote]

A good Order will need contact with your Priest. The Priest himself will also determine if its proper or if its something that perhaps for you, even if you think so, will know whether it is good idea for you or not (depending on anything you share and that in itself speaks...) But will know through his contacts whether its a bogus community or just misguided etc. Some people really don't realise they need it formalising and think a Blessing from their Priest is enough to establish something, that is of course if the priest is in full knowledge what it is they are establishing. etc. Yes it can be very easy to set up anything and make it sound proper. But any proper Order or Community will want your priest to give a reference about you (her) at some point.:thumbsup:


#17

:popcorn: Well I found several communities named for St.Anne.
The Sisters,Daughters of St.Anne who are italian and in the Holy Land.
The Sisters of St.Ann Lucern who are from Switzerland and have convents in India
The Episcopal Society of St.Anna the Prophet in Atlanta
The Epsicopal Order of St.Anne in Chicago
and the Franciscan Sisters of St.Anna in Lwak.Their Facebook page is under Sisters of St.Anne.

Now you mention your friend lives in Eastern Europe.Does she live in Poland by any chance? I ask this because there is a group called the Marivitches.I maybe misspelling the groups name. You can Google them. A sister in Poland who I think was a Franciscan years ago had some visions.A group formed around here and the bishop got invovled etc.
In any case the group which formed around her broke from Rome.They are still around and do have nuns and clergy.Maybe these are the sisters she has contact with, though I think there have been some reaching out to Rome and the pope in recent years.
They might be the group she contacted.


#18

Just wanted to add the Franciscan Sisters of St.Anna I mentioned earlier
are in Africa in Kenya.They came from Oudenbosh,Holland and establised St.Mary’School for girls among other things.


#19

[quote="HollyDolly, post:18, topic:312871"]
Just wanted to add the Franciscan Sisters of St.Anna I mentioned earlier
are in Africa in Kenya.They came from Oudenbosh,,Holland and establised St.Mary'School for girls among other things.

[/quote]

Hi
Community of Saint Anna isn't a residential one but one that is on line per se but seems fully fledged in that very quickly she wanted my priest to contact her. But I know Orders and Communities aren't for me anyway which is totally different :thumbsup:


#20

[quote="ChibiViolet, post:4, topic:312871"]
Certainly. Perhaps pray a Rosary for her or perhaps pray for her at Mass (anyone can attend Mass, but non-Catholics are not to recieve the Eucharist, just so you know.)

[/quote]

Not wholly accurate. Orthodox, Polish National Catholic Church, and Assyrian Church of the East are free to receive the Eucharist at any Catholic Mass.

This is listed in most missalittes at the end under a title about who may receive the Eucharist.


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