Strategies for debate??

Specifically against the Jehovah’s witness?

I have a “special college friend”:wink: who is a JW. I can see she is very eager to teach me the bible and even proposes that her father to lead the study.

oh BTW, her father is an elder. strange were together huh?:smiley: I know very well theyre intentions to me, but i feel short-handed, hope for some help here so i can give them hit-backs.

what are sure-fire strategies for such discussions?

Go to a Thrift Shop and obtain as much of the old WatchTower published teaching books as you can get your hands on. From the late 1800’s to present. You will be able to show your “special college friend” from her own religious faith that it is false because it constantly contradicts itself.

A small example of that would be: Currently, it is against their beliefs to celebrate Christmas with penalty of ex-communication for anyone who decides to celebrate it in any manner. Ex-communication means that no one is their church is allow to speak to you or sit at the same table with you. However, in one of their earlier magazines when Charles Taze Russell was still alive and kicking, there was a photograph of Charles, the founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Organization, along with several of his office staff celebrating…Christmas!!!

Another example, originally Charles Taze Russell made it abundantly clear of multiple predictions of the return of Christ which came up false. Later the chant was “Millions Now Living Will Never Die” this was made in 1914. Those who were living as a new born baby are at least 95 years old - but the slogan wasn’t aimed at the infants - either way, 95 years old & up. Are there still “Millions” of people in that age range? Don’t think so. BTW, they now have changed it to 1914 being the date that Christ Invisibly Returned = His 2nd Coming.

Oh and didn’t you know? St. Michael the Archangel is Jesus. They believe this sillyness because Jesus said that he saw Satan fall like lightning & in the book of Revelation is says that St. Michael kick Satan out of heaven. So in their conclusion, if you saw something happen, then you are the one who did it. I know it is difficult logic to rap your head around because it is not logical.

By the way, to develop a relationship with someone of this faith is very dangerous to your future because if you ended up “In-Love” and you got married, you have to know that divorce is not only accepted, it is encouraged when a “non-believing” spouse decides to take his/her own children to Church. They are extremely Anti-Catholic in their theology. The Church is the Whore, etc.

Based on her already offering you an Bible Study, she is likely using the friendship/relationship simply as a tool to try to convert you. Be very aware.

In order to continue to be an active member, JWs are required to clock their hours spent going door-to-door and doing Bible Studies - they keep accurate records of the peoples’ names and addresses, what was discussed and what literature was given and they turn it in for credit - otherwise they risk ex-communication.

I had a friend in High School was had been ex-communicated from the JW’s. No one in her family would even speak to her - not even a simple ‘good morning’ or ‘hello’. They would allow her to sit at the table with them for meals - she had to eat else where within the home. If she would bring a chair over to sit at the table while they were eating, they would all get up and leave until she left. This girl was about 14 years old and these were her very own parents and siblings! This is the norm.

I also know of a devote Catholic grandma - two of her son’s married JW’s. One of the 2 women had been ex-communicated. When the Catholic grandma would invite the entire family over to Thanksgiving Dinner, the one who was not ex-communicated would refuse to sit at the same table her sister-in-law was sitting. The grandchildren from both of these sons were both brainwashed that the Catholic Church is evil and they were forbidden from ever staying the night with their Grandma, in fear that she may take them to Mass or speak to them in a positive manner about the Catholic Church.

The JW religion is not a loving religion. Even for those not ex-communicated as have to attend a min. of 5 hours worth of meetings every week and log many additional hours of their work (door-to-door/bible studies). They are also strongly encouraged to not speak with Non-JW family members and to cut off all Non-JW relationships (unless there is hope for conversion) and are told to divorce and take kids, etc. The suicide rate is higher within the JW community than within the community at large because of the constant stress/fear.

I would say: invite her to Mass with you and then tell her you’d love to have a Bible Study with her, but insist that you will only attend a Bible Study that your parish is offering. Tell her that you’d love to pray the rosary with her. She will disappear as soon as she knows that you really are a Catholic and are not willing to become a member of the JWs or perhaps, she will risk ex-communication from her entire family and friends network and become Catholic herself! What a joy! If that happens, you need to be ready to console her and connect her immediately with families within the Catholic Church who will be ready to act as a replacement family for her. Also, if her parents are funding her college education, they will cut off any and all financial support they were giving her. You need to be ready to help her emotionally and financially.

After I made the post, I saw that you live in another country. JWs haven’t been in your country long enough for you to go to a Thrift Store to use their own writings against their current teachings.

In lieu of that, you can ask them why they are not Catholic since Jesus founded the Church on St. Peter the Apostle in Gospel of Matthew and just like in the book of Acts, St. Peter authoritatively interpreted The Bible (Old Testament) to indicated that the Office of Judas needed a Successor and the Apostles laid hands on Matthieus and he became the Successor of the Apostle Judas, each of the Apostles had Successors down to the present day. Their response will be to tell you all kinds of horrible things about the Catholic Church and how the Catholic Church today is not the same as it was before.

Then ask them how the JWs came to believe that the 27 books of the New Testament should be a part of the Bible since history clearly shows that it was the Catholic Church who made the decision as to which books should and should not be considered part of the Bible. Early in the Church, there were many different people who came up with varied lists, some very similar, not not identical to the 27 books we use today. It was not until the Church held a Council in Rome in the year 382 under Pope Damasus I that the exact 27 books which are the New Testament today were listed. Then at the Council of Hippo in 393, the same 27 books are confirmed. But it wasn’t until the Council of Trent in 1545 that those same 27 books were Officially made part of the Canon of Scripture. If JW doesn’t believe in the Authority of the Catholic Church, then why would they be using a Bible with same 27 books that the Catholics clearly wrote and selected?

BTW, never agree to use the New World Translation version of the Bible that JWs give/sell. Their is no Greek Scholar that says it renders the New Testament Greek accurately into any other Language.

For example of it’s multiple errors: John 1 reads correctly “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God”

In the New World Translation that same verse reads in error “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was a god”

HUGE difference in meaning!!! They do not believe in the Holy Trinity, so they actually change the Bible to try to make it agree with their confused theology.

Be VERY Aware!

There is one unusual thing about the JW Bible - its New Testament I think is the only one that is based on the original Westcott-Hort text (the WH scholars were Codex Vaticanus-primacy advocates). Even the original ASV/RV didn’t embrace 100% of the textual changes of WH. No, it would have to be the JW’s.

So true, Current JW’s feel that the cross is a pagan symbol, when in fact, they dont even recognize the cross through the crown symbol Russel so passionately used in his early magazines.

I am also aware of “bethsarim”?, self-proclaimed judge Rutherford claimed along with his “theology” millions now living shall never die, that the house (mansion) of lords called bethsarim would be the living quarters of Gods holy prophets such as abraham, daniel, isaiah, moses. After another failed prophecy, the JW quietly sold the mansion.

sad today that most JW’s dont even know bethsarim ever existed. I guess the iron curtain is stronger in this organization.

Your statements regarding JW blunders against Russel’s teachings are a sure-hit, maybe that’s why she claims that CTR doesnt hold high honors in their faith, or not even much of a prominent figure when in fact he was the “founder” of such sect.

is it even true that no greek scholar ever approved of the NWT? this might come in handy:)

anyway, regarding that dating a JW thing, yeah, her parents are actually allowing “us” only because i am their daughter’s only happiness, being an only child and all, we do pretty well together but only break apart in religious/spiritual matters.

that’s why maybe they want to give me bible studies? so in the future we could settle our differences? hmmm what could it mean?:hmmm:

anyway, i already have the basics, i could throw back some pretty mean verses against them (when the time comes):thumbsup:

I guess living here in the philippines, an 85% catholic country she has been exposed to many blunders of our parishes, (sorry but i might sound like a hypocrite) like indulgences, un-ceibate priests, and a feast called “santo nino” which is a somehow ritualistic feast which people gather and throw towels at the statue of the child Jesus feeling that those towels who “touched” Christ can heal? i know this is not recogized by the vatican, but why wont the papacy shun such acts?

good thing in the western countries they limit such traditions, they are conservative catholics, because of the watchful eyes of the non/anti-catholic community, here, its a different story.

these are just some things that is hard to swallow that their (JW) community sometimes throw at Filipino Catholics.

could anyone if available, give me a list of their shifty doctrines? or any of their magazines that their own teachings contradict?? like in the WT book, 1970’s “you will know one of them may be a prophet” and later said in 1985 that the WT are not prophets because they are just human?? any others? it could prove useful in my discussion with an elder., thanks:)

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