Sturgeon - Scotland could veto Brexit


#1

The constitutional crisis within the UK continues unabated…have you ever seen a sorry situation like this? I think we’ll be giving the American Civil War a run for its money at this rate…

This is like a perfect recipe for societal breakdown…

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

**Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has told the BBC that Holyrood could try to block the UK’s exit from the EU.

She was speaking following a referendum on Thursday which saw Britain vote by 52% to 48% to leave Europe.

However, in Scotland the picture was different with 62% backing Remain and 38% wanting to go.

SNP leader Ms Sturgeon said that “of course” she would ask MSPs to refuse to give their “legislative consent”.

In an interview with the BBC’s Sunday Politics Scotland programme she was asked what the Scottish Parliament would do now.

Ms Sturgeon, whose party has 63 of the 129 Holyrood seats, said: "The issue you are talking about is would there have to be a legislative consent motion or motions for the legislation that extricates the UK from the European Union?

“Looking at it from a logical perspective, I find it hard to believe that there wouldn’t be that requirement - I suspect that the UK government will take a very different view on that and we’ll have to see where that discussion ends up.”**

When Ms Sturgeon was asked by presenter Gordon Brewer whether she would consider asking the parliament not to back such a motion of legislative consent she replied “of course”.

She added: “If the Scottish Parliament was judging this on the basis of what’s right for Scotland then the option of saying look we’re not to vote for something that’s against Scotland’s interest, of course that’s got to be on the table.”

Earlier on Sunday, Ms Sturgeon said that she and her colleagues would begin talking to Brussels officials next week about Scotland remaining in the EU.

The day after the full result was known, the Scottish leader confirmed that a second Scottish independence referendum was back on the table.

In September 2014, people in Scotland voted to stay a part of the UK.


#2

Could Scotland block Brexit?
By BBC Scotland’s political editor Brian Taylor
I think Holyrood blocking Brexit is unlikely in that the power arises because the Scottish Parliament has to implement European legislation.
It is not a power that arises with regard to the things that matter, which is the single market and the EU treaties.
I also think that politically there would be a huge resentment from Westminster and England.
If, for example, Scotland had voted “Yes” to independence in 2014 and the Westminster parliament used the blocking mechanism to stop that, one can understand the anger in that regard.
It is a possible political scenario, but in terms of it being a likely political scenario, I think not.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244


#3

Could Scotland block Brexit?
By BBC Scotland’s political editor Brian Taylor
I think Holyrood blocking Brexit is unlikely in that the power arises because the Scottish Parliament has to implement European legislation.
It is not a power that arises with regard to the things that matter, which is the single market and the EU treaties.
I also think that politically there would be a huge resentment from Westminster and England.
If, for example, Scotland had voted “Yes” to independence in 2014 and the Westminster parliament used the blocking mechanism to stop that, one can understand the anger in that regard.
It is a possible political scenario, but in terms of it being a likely political scenario, I think not.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244

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#4

stv.tv/news/politics/1358655-support-for-independence-surges-after-brexit-says-new-poll/

**Support for Scottish independence has rocketed to almost 60% in the aftermath of Britain’s decision to leave the European Union, according to a new poll.

The Sunday Post has reported that 59% of respondents would now vote to leave the United Kingdom, a marked increase on the 45% who voted Yes in 2014.

When undecided voters were stripped out of the results, those in favour of independence rose to over 60%.

The online survey of 1600 adults across Scotland, conducted by ScotPulse, even suggested that older voters were softening their stance on the issue, with 47% of pensioners taking part now favouring a Yes vote.

The poll comes after Britain voted by 52% to 48% in favour of leaving the EU, despite 62% of Scottish voters opting for Remain.

Following the result, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon insisted that a second referendum on Scottish independence must be “on the table” and promised to do “whatever it takes” to keep Scotland in the EU.**


#5

I think this a desirable solution - clearly the economic needs of regions like Scotland and Northern Ireland can no longer be credibly represented by the bulk of voters in England and Wales. As a remain voter, there is also something amusing in thinking the populist phrases that spurred some leave voters, “take our country back”, has led to its dissolution.


#6

I think it is now entirely plausible (although by no means yet inevitable) that David Cameron’s premiership will go down as the “Gorbachev moment” for the UK and his decision to hold this disastrous EU referendum in an attempt to assuage different divisions within the Tory party could be remembered by history as an ill-fated policy along the lines of “perestroika”.

Just as Ukraine became the key state in the ultimate dissolution of the USSR, Scotland may become the UK equivalent.

Still, this is a fast-moving crisis and there are innumerable potencial “futures” - including the UK actually remaining in the EU (however unlikely that would appear at present).

No one has a scooby what is going to happen next. Pandora’s box has been cracked upon and pandemonium has been unleashed.


#7

Scotaland and England have reached the point of having irreconcilable differences.

It is a good thing then that the union that holds them together is not a sacrament. Maybe it is time that they each go their own way.


#8

in.reuters.com/article/britain-eu-scotland-germany-idINKCN0ZC0SJ

**Scotland welcome to join EU, Merkel ally says

An independent Scotland would be welcome to join the European Union, a senior German lawmaker and ally of Chancellor Angela Merkel has said after Britain’s vote to leave the bloc.

“The EU will still consist of 28 member states, as I expect a new independence referendum in Scotland, which will then be successful,” said Gunther Krichbaum, a member of Merkel’s conservatives and chairman of the European affairs committee in parliament.

“We should respond quickly to an application for admission from the EU-friendly country,” he told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper.

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said on Sunday that Scotland will do whatever it takes to remain in the EU, including potentially blocking legislation on a British exit from the bloc.

While Britain as a whole voted narrowly to leave the EU in last Thursday’s referendum, Scotland voted by a 62 percent to 38 percent margin to remain. In a referendum in 2014 Scotland voted 55 percent to 45 percent to stay part of the United Kingdom, but polls show that support for independence has since risen.

(Writing by Paul Carrel; Editing by Stephen Powell)**


#9

If the Scottish Parliament proves unable to block Brexit or if a seriously good deal including continued participation in the single market is not ultimately agreed or if a general election is held and a pro-Remain party does not win a UK-wide mandate of…numerous other possibilities…

Then people both sides of the “border” between Scotland and England have a decision to make.

The United Kingdom or the EU? Which one union to ultimately “Remain” in?

Of course, the question is probably more grave for the UK than it is for the EU.

If Britain’s makes good on that “English” leave vote and Scotland is forced out, the UK will cease to exist. The Union created in 1707 is over. The country that the U.S. gained independence from in the 18th century all simply cease to exist.

For the EU, Brexit has spurred eurosceptic populism in other Member States but it need not prove so fatal.

The supreme irony is that Brexit may have strengthened the EU’s hand by giving it Scotland and thus enabling Brussels to end the very existence of the UK as the ultimate “price” to be paid - unless Scoxit makes English Leave voters take a major re-think.

Is it really worth leaving the EU to destroy the UK?

Nicola Sturgeon is playing the “game of thrones” incredibly here while everyone else in the UK is running around like a headless chicken.


#10

It appears that England and England have reached the point of irreconcilable differences. No-one knows what’s happening or what’s going to happen, everyone contradicts everyone and Labour’s falling apart.

I might move to Scotland, if they’ll take me.

Lou


#11

When the British Raj came to an end, and the countries of India and Pakistan were created along religious lines, there was also a sorting out. Many Muslims in India moved to Pakistan and many Hindus moved to India. There was also a great deal of sectarian violence.

Could we expect something similar with respect to England/Wales and Scotland? What about Northern Ireland, where the referendum vote seemed to split along religious lines?


#12

An English family member of mine told me discreetly yesterday that he’s contemplating moving to the Irish Republic.

I do think that if the crisis continues to escalate, a flood of refugees will eventually be streaming forth from “Brexit” England to EU Ireland and Scotland in about a decade or less from now.

Unlike the English Brexiteers baleful opposition to refugees fleeing from other countries to England, we will welcome you :smiley: :wink:


#13

The cities of Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Liverpool and Bristol also seem to agree that they want to Move to Scotland.


#14

I really wouldn’t be surprised. So many people who voted leave appear to be regretting it now.

I’ll use your invite when things get worse, thanks :smiley:

Wish mine did!

Lou


#15

I don’t have all the details on what Brexit means for everyone across the pond, but I heard that Britain was putting more money than others in the EU budget. My guess is that with Britain leaving, Scotland is going to have to pick up the slack? Is that why they want to veto?


#16

What level of benefits are you willing to pay for for all of these refugees?


#17

In 1918, Rudyard Kipling wrote about Tsarist Russia: “300 years it flourished, in 300 days it died.”

What would he think now, if his own Kingdom, which has now “flourished for 300 years” and dominated the world for half of them, should go down in less than that?

May colder heads prevail!

ICXC NIKA


#18

:slight_smile: Democracy is messy to be sure.

And to be doubly sure, the constant bombardment of muticulturalism as the only legitimate non-racist response to the modern world has left the English too with no real concept of what it even means to be English anymore.

It is no wonder that the schizophrenic response that you are reporting on is happening in your own back yard. It is the same kind of thing that Mark Steyn had predicted years back.

Expect more of the same as the nation state disintegrates, and neighbours no longer share any semblance of a common identity.

Backwater places that nobody ever wants to move to anyway will remain shielded somewhat, but if more and more English see Scotland as the place to be, any semblance of Scottish identity will also disappear too. Multiculturalism and a culture of death where people are no longer reinvigorating their culture naturally through procreative methods ensure this to be the case in any region with large scale immigration, especially when the indigeneous cultural identity is actively discouraged.

Come to think of it, democracy being messy is not even the half of it.


#19

Culture is not subjective - there are objective good and bad traits to culture, and integration, in an ideal world, would logically produce a superior configuration. I agree that multiculturalism has been a failure in so far as it might import those unwilling to integrate, but the solution is not to run for neo-nationalism. All the nation state has achieved is to restrict the free-market by imposing tariffs and, though it’s nationalist ideals, drawing massive tax-levies towards the military, and foster intellectual stagnation by restricting free-speech and discourse, and cultural growth and inter-culture dialogue by control of education. Nationslism is a violent, big government nightmare.


#20

I agree with you about nationalism, but there is subjectivity in culture, which is also never static.

The culture of the USA is not what it was in 1900 or even after WW2.

And protectionism toward culture can be just as catastrophic as nationalism.

ICXC NIKA


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