Submission


#1

I go to a message Board where Catholics and Protestants debate and this came up. It seems that one person and her husband are both members of an Evangelical Prot. Church. She has been through much with her health and she says that God is leading her to the Catholic Church. She is now in RCIA and brings her son and daughter and grandkids to Mass with her and the daufghter is also now in RCIA and the Grandchildren like going to Mass. Her husband wants to stay an Evangelical and at this time has no interest in becoming a Catholic, but he doesn’t mind the wife doing so. Many Prots. on the board are telling her not to do so but to study the Bible and see how the Catholic Church is unBiblical and to reconsider. Also they are telling her that her husband is the spiritual head of the household and that if God wanted her to be Catholic then the Holy Spirit would be telling him become a Catholic also. That she should “submit” to the husbands headship and wait for God to lead hubby and until then she should stay an Evangelical and not “divide” the family. My Brother and Sister Catholics here what say you to this? What is the answer? I too would like to know the amswer so I can respond and understand. Thank You for your help. In Christ, jurist12


#2

Since her husband supports her decision, she is not dividing anything. As well as husbands are first to submit themselves to God. If they first do that, then the wife is not submitting to the husband but to God. As the husband has yet to submit to God on this issue, she has an obligation to go without him if that is his choice.

Just my opinion.
Maria


#3

[quote=MariaG]Since her husband supports her decision, she is not dividing anything. As well as husbands are first to submit themselves to God. If they first do that, then the wife is not submitting to the husband but to God. As the husband has yet to submit to God on this issue, she has an obligation to go without him if that is his choice.

Just my opinion.
Maria
[/quote]

Luke 2:41 - 52
That would be a god start.


#4

[quote=jurist12] Many Prots. on the board are telling her not to do so but to study the Bible and see how the Catholic Church is unBiblical and to reconsider. Also they are telling her that her husband is the spiritual head of the household and that if God wanted her to be Catholic then the Holy Spirit would be telling him become a Catholic also. That she should “submit” to the husbands headship and wait for God to lead hubby and until then she should stay an Evangelical and not “divide” the family.
[/quote]

You may want to consider, first of all, deflecting the claim that the Catholic Church is “unbiblical.” There is an excellent resource on the Catholic Answers site at URL:
catholic.com/library/Scriptural_Reference_Guide.asp
which provides help in doing that.

I’m a bit flabbergatsted to hear about the Holy Spirit only speaking to wives through their husbands. Were that true, I can only wonder where I’d be right now, and my wife was only received into the Church last Easter. You might want to ask for a reference for that conclusion, particularly in the light of the women in Holy Scripture who clearly were guided by the Holy Spirit in their lives. Most particularly, what of our Blessed Mother? She was not only without a husband when asked to bring Our Lord into the world, but the message was delivered by an Archangel, no less.

I don’t know the particulars of the group whose “board” is making these suggestions, but I can share this. My older daughter (now confirmed in the Church as of last Easter) worshipped with a group that had a very controlling board-type structure for a while. They went so far as telling her, through a “home group” structure, that she should buy a new car! This type of control is very unhealthy, and very unchristian, and meddling in the affairs of a family is way over the line, particularly if the husband is showing signs of acceptance. It would be interesting to see what justification could be provided for this kind of interference.

The message of Genesis is very clear: Male and Female He created them – different, but equal in His sight. The couple seems to have dealt well with this turn of events, and the interloping of the “board” seems to ignore the message of Genesis.

Blessings,

Gerry


#5

Matt 6

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.


#6

Protestants speaking of the importance of submission to a divinely-ordained human authority? Does anyone else see the irony?

Where was Luther’s submission? Calvin’s submission? Zwingli’s submission? Knox’s submission? Henry VIII’s submission?

If God is calling this woman out of their church, who are they to resistance God. She should ask them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge.” (Acts 4:19). Wasn’t that the same reason given by their Protestant ancestors for leaving the Catholic Church?


#7

[quote=jurist12]Her husband wants to stay an Evangelical and at this time has no interest in becoming a Catholic, but he doesn’t mind the wife doing so.
[/quote]

That her husband does not oppose her joining the Catholic Church simply means that unlike other evangelicals, he probably does not really believe the Catholic Church is unbiblical or even evil. If he really believed Catholicism is that bad, then as a husband who loves his wife, he would have been the first to oppose her conversion. It is God’s will perhaps that he did not oppose her conversion at all.

Besides, there is really no division in the family since almost the entire family, with the exception of the husband[who doesn’t mind], are practically coming over to the Church.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#8

[quote=RobedWithLight] If he really believed Catholicism is that bad, then as a husband who loves his wife, he would have been the first to oppose her conversion. It is God’s will perhaps that he did not oppose her conversion at all.

Gerry :slight_smile:
[/quote]

This is so interesting because this is the situation that I find myself in. My husband, who loves me, is extremely opposed even to my interest in the Catholic church, much less my participation or attendance. I had begun attending RCIA last year but stopped after he basically insisted that I stop. The advice I received from the priest was to wait and pray - which I am still doing.

I believe the Holy Spirit responds to everyone’s situation personally - so for this lady who is receiving no opposition in her home…the rest of those folk need to mind their own business. But for me, I am trying to honor God by honoring my marriage vows and remaining as a family for the sake of my little girl. Is this the “right” thing to do? I don’t know - but I firmly believe that I am being led by the Holy Spirit to the Catholic church in spite of how my husband feels and it is up to God to work out the particulars of how I get there in His own time.

Missa


#9

[quote=Missa]… My husband, who loves me, is extremely opposed even to my interest in the Catholic church, much less my participation or attendance. I had begun attending RCIA last year but stopped after he basically insisted that I stop…
…I am trying to honor God by honoring my marriage vows and remaining as a family for the sake of my little girl. Is this the “right” thing to do?
Missa
[/quote]


Dear Missa,

Married women honor their marriage vows when they follow the judgment of their own personal conscience. A wife has her OWN moral agency and individual responsibility before Almighty God; the husband may not “trump”, overrule, or “stand in for” the wife’s moral conscience.

In fact, we sin when we fail to follow the certain judgment of our conscience and instead “back down” and allow a dominating spouse to unjustly control us against our will. In order to fulfill our obligation to adhere to the truth discovered by our conscience, we need psychological freedom and immunity from external coercion.

Freedom of religion is a civil right; religious liberty is not granted to the wife by the husband, but by God; her conscience is not “submitted to” her spouse’s approval, but is her most secret core and sanctuary.

However, the “mutual subjection of the spouses out of reverence for Christ” would support a loving consideration of each other’s sensitivities in following the non-negotiable judgments of one’s conscience.


The Catechism of the Catholic Church applies to married women, too:

1778 Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right…
1780… the truth about the moral good, stated in the law of reason, is recognized practically and concretely by the prudent judgment of conscience. We call that man prudent who chooses in conformity with this judgment.

1781 Conscience enables one to assume responsibility for the acts performed…

1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53
___________
The Church even has marriage laws which provide for safety in marriage by allowing separation of the spouses in serious spiritually dangerous circumstances:

Code of Canon Law- Separation While the Bond Endures

Can. 1153 – #1 If either of the spouses causes serious danger of spirit or body to the other spouse or to the children, or otherwise renders common life too hard, that spouse gives the other a legitimate cause for separating…


The teaching on religious freedom from Vatican II is printed in my posts on the thread about Spousal Subordination in the Family Life Forum…
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=7355


#10

I would represent the situation, but this time the husband is a Catholic, and the wife wants to leave the Catholic Church for an evangelical Protestant denomination.

I’m curious how many would insist that she ought to stay in the Catholic Church because “her husband is the spiritual head of the household and that if God wanted her to be *Protestant *then the Holy Spirit would be telling him to become *Protestant *also.”


#11

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