Superiority of Secular Morality over Religious Systems


#23

Are you arguing the point that every form of government that is not religious is secular? So secular democracy, secular dictatorship, etc?
Difference with religious system, it can never change from being a dictatorship. It is eternally a dictatorship.


#24

Doyon recall the story of the battle of Jericho?


#25

All the ancientness and Hitler


#26

China, former Soviet Union, North Korea, Viet Nam…These are not just secular - they are atheist regimes.


#27

You need to do some research on Hitler and the Nazis. The Nazis were extremely opposed to Judeo Christian Religion. There were more Priests in Dachau alone, than there were in Rome and the Vatican combined.

Hitler believed that the Fuher and the Reich should be viewed as all powerful, and religion ran counter to Hitler’s power structure. Organized religion was to be eradicated.

A good place to start would be looking at Nazi propaganda, science and medical research, and there is a great book on the Catholic Priests at Dachau. I can’t think of the books name, but if you are interested, I can look it up.

I’ll let others discuss the historical groups.


#28

OMG! A leader creates his own religion so people have to worship him?! Don’t give Trump any ideas! :church::moneybag::tangerine:!!


#29

North Korea’s already there. Mao beat them to it.


#30

Are you arguing from the point of the Bible as history or myth?


#31

It should be noted that the Catholic moral system is not strictly “religious” in that it is not based strictly on revelation believed with faith. It is first and foremost based on reason and human nature and has the good of humanity as its end. In that sense it has some commonality with the secular system described above. The difference is that we acknowledge that man is fallen and therefore his intellect can often be overcome by his passions, even in (or sometimes especially in) a group setting leading to irrational outcomes, as history amply demonstrates over and over. We also acknowledge that reason and human nature are universal across all men in all times, which is contrary to the secular system proposed, which apparently sees these things as variable across time and place.

Finally, we also acknowledge that, because of our wounded nature, God has also confirmed the reasonable moral order through supernatural revelation as well–but this is not strictly necessary.


#32

I’m trying to watch this video - as lengthy as it is - to see what it is about.

I’ve never heard of Matt Dillahunty, which is interesting because I live in Austin & may have actually seen some of his atheist programming on tv - at least in passing. But, in any case, I had to look him up, & I found this in Wikipedia:

He has his own website here:

http://mattdillahunty.com/

I guess it’s safe to say that he got a-religion as he got older. In my view though, that is another form of religion - albeit one with a more tangible deity.

His own claim in the opening of the video is that he was raised Fundamentalist. I, too, for a time was raised Baptist, later attended a Fundamental Church, fell away from church for a long while (long story), attended Nondenominational churches for many years, & finally, entered into full communion with the Catholic Church.

Am just starting on his first point of why secular morality is superior & why “Because I said so…” doesn’t answer the question. That’s kind of obvious, & I’m sure most of us - whether theistic or atheistic - would agree. Morality of actions based on some standard - subjective opinion vs objective truth. At least I think that’s what I’m hearing. I’m going to switch to my Mac as it’s hard trying to listen to this on my iPhone.

Will try to continue as points arise…I think this discussion would’ve been a lot easier to follow had an outline of the speaker’s main points with underlying arguments been provided.


#33

I think that this is an assumption. I don’t believe that all secular morality has that ultimate goal of human well-bring. Maybe for some, but for others, no. I have a friend who identifies as a secular humanist, & we’ve been friends for probably about 3 decades or more now…We have our different beliefs. We agree on some things, & we disagree on other things.


#34

Secular morality seems more self centred, we do what we want to do. If we want a dozen sexual partners that’s ok. The breakdown of marriage and family is very much the result of secular morality. Children having no stability in their lives due to a number of step parents and step relationships.


#35

Okay,
So before going down this rabbit hole, let’s define what it means to be a secular government first and a religious government and then apply those filters to this argument. I’m pretty sure a lot of your complaints will not apply to those governmental systems after that, but we’ll see.


#36

I agree, but I couldn’t find one. That’s why I asked people to post one if they found it.


#37

Treating people as experimental test subjects is essentially the issue with a purely secular morality. Humans have a “nature” alongside a “being.” Therein, we must acknowledge human nature, prior to any “experimentation” and as such non-secular ethics are needed.

I wouldn’t say religious ethics are superior though, I would say that they merely come first. The issue with secular moralists is that they set aside these issues, and hence are prone to acting outside of human nature and invariably forcing a nature upon humans.


#38

Do you have a specific question about this Matt’s discussion on his topic? I am going to look through the video tonight and see if he addresses that point and at what time in the video.


#39

Are you suggesting that in a country with a secular government, is imposing a moral system to run rough shot over the morals of the majority Christians in this country and that is why the majority of christian families are doing everything you say is a bad thing? Since christians are the majority of this country, wouldn’t the majority of the people of this country be applying their own private religious cultural standards to their own lives and not doing what you are complaining about? Or are you advocating for a religious country with laws that force people to act religious without the freedom to choose to do it or not because when given the freedom to choose, the self proclaimed christians actually don’t act christian.


#40

When Jesus was asked

What is the greatest commandment? Jesus responded

Everything rests on those 2 commandments.

So the question I have is, where does that answer, rest with Matt Dillahunty


#41

This would seem to properly lead back to objective morality if the ultimate purpose is questioned. To what end?


#42

Okay, but we haven’t defined what a secular system is yet, so let’s do that first before making pronouncements.


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