The story: I have a tricky hormonal problem that I've stupidly delayed treating. These things aren't simple, the condition I have is not too very well-understood by the medical community so far, and finding a good doctor can save a woman's health sometimes. I did a little research and found the premier center in my area that has a special clinic devoted to this syndrome - the problem is that this center also is the leader in IVF treatments.
Just so that we're all clear: I would be going only for medical care that did not involve any reproductive medicine that's banned by the Catholic Church. I would, however, be supporting this business.
I have been to an NFP gynecologist and a reproductive endocrinologist and I'm not at all happy with the situation there. I have a complicated case and I would so very much like to utilize a center that's dedicated to this problem, but at the same time, the thought of going into a place of business with frozen human beings in cryotanks makes my conscience ache.
One of my friends said, "Lots of gynecologists participate in non-Catholic reproductive medicine, or abortive medicines or procedures, even if they're not at clinics labeled as such. There aren't enough NFP doctors for us all, and so as long as we don't get those non-Catholic services ourselves, it's fine."
Is she right? How do we wrap our minds around this?
While I agree with your concerns I don’t think that you are overtly supporting this doctor/clinic in their IVF efforts. If you could find the medical treatment outside of this clinic, that would be a better choice. But if you cannot find necessary treatment outside this clinic and you are not going there for a procedure that conflicts with the Church’s teaching I don’t believe you are doing anything wrong.
The only doctor in our area - and I traveled two hours to see him that did tubal ligation reversals using NaPro techniques also does IVF and other medicine - he does not do abortions. I will say this - I loved him and he did a wonderful job for me. I also sat next to a wonderful pregnant Catholic woman and her two kids while her daughter played with my bracelet with the Saint pics on it when I went in for my consult - it was great. We named the Saints. Hopefully by enough people going for the right reasons it will make it more difficult for those other patients to get seen on a regular basis - one doctor can only do so much. What a wonderful way to be pro-life by only being witnesses to the Gospel
I have to see an RE too. He’s big into the PGD/IVF stuff so I’m not happy about that. But at the same time he’s the only dr. in my area that can treat my immune problems and help my future children live.
[quote="joandarc2008, post:3, topic:228208"]
The only doctor in our area - and I traveled two hours to see him that did tubal ligation reversals using NaPro techniques also does IVF and other medicine - he does not do abortions. I will say this - I loved him and he did a wonderful job for me. I also sat next to a wonderful pregnant Catholic woman and her two kids while her daughter played with my bracelet with the Saint pics on it when I went in for my consult - it was great. We named the Saints. Hopefully by enough people going for the right reasons it will make it more difficult for those other patients to get seen on a regular basis - one doctor can only do so much. What a wonderful way to be pro-life by only being witnesses to the Gospel :D
May you have three sets of triplets.......all boys!
[quote="Iowa_Mike, post:7, topic:228208"]
One thing for sure.........you'll be very busy....and extremely blessed whether God gives you 1, 9 or a bakers dozen.
Well first I have that divorce, decree of nullity (if it goes through), dating, finding the right man (we saw how well that worked last time), discernment, engagement, then marriage - and then we'll see how much time God has left for the litter - but with that kind of time line He better be dealing in multiples. :p
It’s a long process. I just helped a niece get an annulment a year or so ago. It took her nearly 2 years. That might seem like a long time but it puts her right with the Church now and in the future.
The beautiful thing about children…they don’t necessarily need to be your biological kids to love them the pieces. My daughter has 5 adopted and 3 bio’s. Some of these kids have serious issues…but it is sooo gratifying to see these children thrive which would never have happened in the enviornments they came from.
Hang in there…life’s a process and there is never a dull moment…just irritating ones.
[quote="Iowa_Mike, post:9, topic:228208"]
It's a long process. I just helped a niece get an annulment a year or so ago. It took her nearly 2 years. That might seem like a long time but it puts her right with the Church now and in the future.
The beautiful thing about children...they don't necessarily need to be your biological kids to love them the pieces. My daughter has 5 adopted and 3 bio's. Some of these kids have serious issues......but it is sooo gratifying to see these children thrive which would never have happened in the enviornments they came from.
Hang in there....life's a process and there is never a dull moment....just irritating ones.
And I keep thinking about the end of that old song by Meatloaf - Paradise by the Dashboard Light - but anyway. :thumbsup::p
Me personally…I’m not Catholic, and have no problem with ABC that is a Barrier Method, and I little issue with ethically performed IVF (meaning no leftover embryos and no 6 impants at a time). However My husband and I do use NFP planning because he is Catholic and it works for us. So take this with a grain of salt.
Lots of Pro-Life Doctors and repoductive specialists are not Catholic. Therefore it is not a sin to them to recommend ABC that is a barrier method. I have no problem with the fact that my OBGYN recommends these types of ABC, and neither does my husband. She also is supportive of our NFP choices. If the specialist that you need also does IVF, I think it’s OK and you aren’t sinning. You are trying to treat a medical condition. Similar to if you have cancer in your uterus and it has to be removed rendering you sterile you are not sinning. Now I do think patronizing a Doctor that also did abortions would be a sin as they are actively killing people.
You cannot expect the non catholic word to conform to every Catholic teaching. I’m sure it would be nice, but it is impractical.
I have an OBGYN that I HAVE to go to – only one in the area who was taking new patients when I moved AND that took my insurance and I have to be seen by OBGYN quite regularly. THey are so avidly prochoice, they have a HUGE whole page ad in the yellow pages describing all their “services”. :mad: I was devastated when they were my only choice. I too do not go there for anything related to things against the catholic church but I feel like I’m supporting their business.
I was given this advice for when I went to my first visit… “Make it VERY clear to the doc that you do NOT agree with neither morally, nor ethically and that you thought they had the right to know that information. In addition you would HOPE they could respect that enough to keep it as much out of sight/conversation/etc as possible when you are in for an appointment and that had they not had their specialty in your particular medical condition, you would NEVER have chosen to be their patient b/c of the other services they provide.” I did just that and although I’m sure it meant nothing to the doc, it sure did make me feel better…
Well… Personally I wouldn’t have a problem seeing a doctor that offers the best care for my body. Pretty much regardless of the services he provides.
And to throw a wrench into the equation, you might want to realize that most feritility clinics either support or perform selective elimination when mom ends up PG with more than 2 or 3 babies…
Which is far worse, IMO… than anything else they are doing.
The thing is… you’re NOT doing those things. And I’m not so sure you’re enabling them the doctor to do those things. You can be he charges a pretty penny for these other services paid in full by his patients getting those services…
Though it is true those patients DO pay for those services in full, as a collective whole his patient population and success of his/her practice allows for things like paying for the malpractice insurance, CEU, conferences, etc etc in which s/he inevitably attends/participates.
How about the fact that virtually every single OB GYN in the US, offers ABC of all methods, I’m sure a huge amount prescribe the morning after pill. Most will perform sterilization.
Then if you end up with any cancers you are off to a doctor whose medicine was easily funded by groups like the Susan K. foundation, which also funds Planned Parenthood (last I heard). Or treatments found through stem cell research.
Chances are if you visit any hospital in your area, you are visiting a place where abortions are done at least in the case of emergencies, as well as the care for the mothers and children of IVF success stories. Not to mention that plugs are being pulled in those hospitals on patients that could live forever on a machine, but have no brain activity… or for that matter… medicated to death in the name of pain management.
So, in essence if you go to any of those facilities, and pay your bill, then you in effect fund all the medical procedures you don’t approve of. Or allow the doctors to eventually attend conferences on topics that you don’t approve of.
And further, should we reconsider using certain medicine or tools that was gained in seemingly horrific manners. Since we’re talking OB/GYN… how about the speculum they use in virtually every single exam? A little research, and you’ll find how female slaves where terribly abused by Dr. Sims… the man that brings us this nifty little tool…
So, where is the line to be drawn? At the extremely obvious? Or just where you don’t happen to be privy to what’s actually going on? OP, that’s a decision you’re going to have to make.
I personally have dealt with some not so fun female problems. It seems to me, if you are doing what you can to preserve your fertility, as well as you body, and health seeing a skilled doctor is your best bet. Nor will you be personally engaged in the activities that he does. Nor are you endorsing them. But if you can’t bare going into his office for the other work he does. Then find out where he learned to take care of your problem… He couldn’t be the only guy in the states that can treat you. Or perhaps you can get your Dr. to consult with him??? I’m sure that would still be a paid service.
Oddly, since you posted, I just checked my insurance… Kaiser… turns out, as the best I can figure, they contracted Planned Parenthood back in 2000 to do their abortions. Really, you just can’t get into a “clean” environment anymore.
You are exactly 100% correct. This is why there is such a need for more Catholic hospitals and research that is funded through “clean” types of avenues. No, there will never be a 100% “clean” medical care – except for those who get no medical care at all – but I CAN do what I can to NOT support it at least on the local level as much as possible… I can also let those docs know (which I did) that I disapproved of everything he stood for…
[quote="Anna1345, post:18, topic:228208"]
You are exactly 100% correct. This is why there is such a need for more Catholic hospitals and research that is funded through "clean" types of avenues. No, there will never be a 100% "clean" medical care -- except for those who get no medical care at all -- but I CAN do what I can to NOT support it at least on the local level as much as possible... I can also let those docs know (which I did) that I disapproved of everything he stood for......
But if you have a severe problem that you can't get treated. I'm not sure you have to endure when treatement, that is not unethical in and of itself, is available to you.
@Anna1345: You poor thing! I really admire you making your stance clear. I’m lucky that my regular GYN heard me loud and clear when I had my first appointment, and he’s so great that he’s made sure to remember about my beliefs when we talk about medicines and plans. I hurts my heart to think that maybe he performs abortions or prescribes RU-486. I also really admire your attention to detail in checking around to try to find a new doctor as soon as one offers availability.
@faithfully: You brought up so many good points; I had never even thought about how far and deep our medical care system goes with lack of respect for life. I suppose it was just the shock of seeing “IVF” written all over the stationery of a center that made me feel uncomfortable, but what’s worse than that is how embedded anti-life practices are in the system. Nothing to do but pray, pray, pray. Perhaps if enough patients start being seriously offended at the suggestion of a termination, it can act as a form of witness and change for doctors…