Surrogation, uncles?


#22

In vitro fertilization and surrogacy are condemned by the Church.

Unless of course in the case of the in vitro fertilization all the fertilized eggs are implanted into woman’s uterus then that’s different but it’s a hard no on surrogoncy especially for a gay couple.

The Church also warns and speaks out against homosexual couples raising children together.

A child should have a mother and a father period.

I’m afraid Church attendance doesn’t change that living in a same-sex homosexual relationship in of itself is actually a sin everyone focuses on the sex aspect but it’s the relationship itself that’s disordered and mortally sinful.

Being homosexual is not a sin but living an actively homosexual life is sinful.

Sorry that’s not the answer you’re looking for but that’s the truth of the matter.

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/the-hardest-teaching-of-them-all


#23

I am really sorry you go through this situation yourself.

Unfortulately, as a teenager, you are helpless in this situation. You can express your trouble, it is unlikely to change anything to their decisions, but why not, if you fell you need to say someone.

With all due respect to your mother,
This sort of situation is a moral dilemna. We have here three adults, who are catholics, so not completly ignorant of the issues they created/managed, but deliberatly choose an immoral path. I don’t prejude of course of how much their thinking is morally educated.

I will try to explain some aspects for your conscience formation.

First, the only moral way to give life to children, is from natural intercourse. And because we are christians and believe to covenant of God, this should take place in sacramental marriage.
Others sexual relationships outside of marriage, including of the same-sex one, is not what God call us.

So creating children through artificial technics such as artificial insemination, IVF with or without external donors is a sin and is a prejudice against the dignity of the children conceive, and even the dignity of the parents.
Of course, surrogacy which dissociated the maternity of the biological mother and the pregnant one is gravely evil.
Contracts, payments for processures and mothers, unkown genitors are others natural wrongs against the principle of the body indisponibility. It is making life giving a business. These principle is garantees in some countries, but unkown in others.

Ensuring that all the embryos are given a chance to life in all circunstances,- which is also practically impossible in some cases is not the only moral aspect to consider.
We are still in a moral dilemna and the Church recognize we cannot solve this dilemna create by acts that should never had happened. Given the children to others couples is possible but will create others disorders, because the child who will be born will have a more explosed biologicals origins.

In Dignitas personae instruction, paragraph 19, the Church currently recognize there is no moral solution to an immoral situation : a " situation of injustice which in fact cannot be resolved."
The immoral situation is the deliberate freezing of embryos
There is no acceptable solution.

  • Giving them to laboratory research is immoral

  • Giving them to others people/couples is inacceptable because men and women can only become parents by their wife/husband, it will only give an “moral” exit to a voluntary immoral situation, and IVF + embryo transfert is immoral in itself.

  • permanently let them stay frozen is something close to therapeutic acharnment.

  • the only remaining solution is to destroy them, even if the killing in itself cannot be approved.

Some people try to save the maximum of embryos at all costs, as a prolife conviction. It is only their feeling, but not what the Church mandate.

Implanting 2 of the 3 embryos is not more moral than just implanting one. More, on medical level only twin pregnancy is more complicated.


#24

@Anicette okay… thank you for your answer. Im pretty sure my mother doesnt know its immorally wrong, but what should I say to her? I want her to live a holy life because I love her so much. It hurts me. Shes pro life, and im sure if i told her the moral dilemna she would be upset. Shes just trying to help out friends


#25

Surrogacy process.
Depend on where you live (USA, I guess?)

Laws on surrogacy varry from countries. In most, it is illegal. Some have no regulation, and others, such as USA have permissive laws.

It is a way for couples who cannot bear a child the natural way, for male homosexual couples, single mens and sterile or old single women to have a child.

The more simple technic is to conceive child(ren) through artificial insemination with a woman who is a stranger to the aspiring parents. The father of intention is the biological fathers.

However, this technic is not used a lot today, because couples and compagny are frighten that the mother will be to attached to her own children.

So, now, in almost all situations, the “surrogate” mother is not the genetic mothers. An other woman is required to give her ovocyte. The children are conceived in laboratory through in vitro fertilization. So we have two mothers of origins and a child conceive outside of a maternal body. The filiation or the child is exploded, and he does not have really one mother.

After that the child is raised by parents who can have the differents configuration mentioned above.

In many cases and many countries surrogacy involved bying reproductive cells from anonymous woman and to pay the “surrogate” mother.
Contracts can be written to define the duties of the mother during the pregnancy and fixed what she can do if the child have a problem detected in utero.


#26

I don’t think there is a perfect anwers to such an hurtfull situation. I am really hurt and sad for you.

I will just counsel her to speak of what you feel on this situation and how you feel hurt. Just say your worries and what you have on heart and trying to be respectfull (if you can).
I don’t think it is wrong to speak to her of a moral dilemna if you feel there is one.

You can, if she is receptive (only if she is) indicate her the Dignitas personae document of the Magisterium http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20081208_dignitas-personae_en.html

I don’t doubt her sincerity, she is probably just trying to help.

You can speak to your priest to have consel and his prayer (don’t know if he is the priest to your uncle too).

If you were an adult I will advise you to contact the national catholic bioethical center.

Just try to inform your conscience now and try to have psychological support if you need it. Have an active prayer life.

I don’t think there is other think you can do now as underage.

Later, you can involve in the city life to defend pro life and bioethical causes if you wishe.

I will pray for you and your family. For the healing of all parts involved and that God can enlight their hearts.


#27

@Anicette Okay… Im just worried. My mother, shes prolife and a strict Catholic. She tries to be accepting of everyone. And my uncles, shes been close with them even before I was born, so I can see she just wants to help them out. At the moment, I think the reason she is helping them is because, they have been wanting a child for such a long time. But I will try to talk to my mom about the morality of this entire situation, and my worry for her. This whole situation has been stressing me out haha, i just want everyone I love to be able to go to heaven and be with God.


#28

I understand that you worry, it must be horrible.

Remember that you are not responsible of the situation. Your uncles are responsibles of the situation they have created. Your mother is responsible of what she said to her and the way she choose to help them or not.
You are not guilty of something in this situation, and shoudn’t feel.
You are only guilt of your deliberate sins.

You are a very caring person and serious catholic to want that everyone around you go to heaven. It honors you.

I personally disagree with your mother to try to help someone, even loved one, to have children in immoral manner. I don’t doubt she does it because of compassion and sympathy, but feel she is misguided.

Perhaps your family is the victim of your societal environment, which can dismish their responsabilty. It seems you live in very liberal area surrounding artificial procreation topics/acceptance of “gay” parenting.
In a country where surrogacy is illegal perhaps we would not see a lot of devout catholics trying and support this process.

Sometimes refusing to create an injust situation even if it is painfull for the people who renounce, is the only way to maintain a better society and don’t report pain over children.

It is not to me to say what her responsability toward it is. I am not her judge. God is.

When you will try to speak with your mother try to not condamn her. She is your mother. You cannot choose for her what she want to do. Just express your feeling.


#29

@Anicette okay… i cant just bear the fact my mother is making an immoral decision, out of sympathy. i do hope i can get her to confess her sins, because i wont be able to live with the fact she is sinning. I hope that she didnt know about the immorality of the situation so it will be easier… and yes, we live in california, where gay marriage, and surrogation are very common. I


#30

I think you have good excuse if you live in California! A place where such issues doesn’t seems one.

It is highly possible that someone (including your mother) is not aware of all issue on all topics. In such cases, if someone does not know it is wrong, it cannot be a sin.

Be a practicing catholic does not guarantee a conscious formation on all subjects, and many catholics never heard something in their parish/local church on the “sensible” topics, such as surrogacy, gay marriage.
Possibly more in California than in other place, such as mine.

In her conscience she may feel that she has the duty to save as many embryos as possible for exemple. We cannot prevent her to do what she thinks she has to do.

All people sin in many differents ways, not only on sexuality/life/marriage/procreation issues. We are all sinners in differents degrees. We have to be aware and accept that we cannot prevent people to sin all time, even in our own family.

As a child, you cannot “correct” the attitude of your parent. Family is not made in this order. The parents have a different vision and somewhat know better than their children, even if they do not always made the better choice.

Confession are here if we failed.

But remeber that you cannot asks her to go to confession if she does not ask you your opinion before. You cannot dictate what she do or have to think herself.
The only think you can do is to pray for your mother. And make the choice you feel are right when you will be adult.

And yes, you have to live with your imperfect parents, who may sin, but the only parents that you have and who takes care for you.


#31

@Anicette okay… thank you for that information. Im feeling a tad bit better. I will pray for my mother, and I will inform her of the moral issues. I dont think she knows of the moral issies in my opinion. And your right, the nest thing for now is to pray. God bless


#32

@Anicette also. I felt the need to add this. My mother isnt “actively” helping them. Shes just there for moral support for them ya know. My uncles are the one making all the decisions whilst my mother is just helping them get ready to be a parent ya know


#33

Maybe with informing your mother on what the Church teaches about IVF and surrogacy and Same sex couples and adoption…

If it sounds good to you can maybe try saying something like… "Mom guess what I found out about what the Church teaches about IFV ect.? I don’t hate ____ and ____ but this is what God’s Church teaches. :scream::disappointed:


#34

@Anicette @Guest1 hopefully i can get her to realize its wrong. I might have to wait a while though. Shes kinda mad at me for messing up her office hehe. But i hope i can get her to see the immoral situation here. I wont be able to live witb myself knowing my mom may have commited a grave sin. I love her too much for that. I hope my prayers are strong enough for her to realize the wrong. I feel like crying


#35

Anyone under the age of 18 should be discussing these issues with their pastor or an adult that they know and trust.


#36

I agree with Denise. It’s inappropriate for adults on a forum to be discussing topics of this nature on the Internet with 14 and 15-year-olds.

In addition, I am concerned that the original post, made by a brand new poster who claims to be very young, and containing a host of “hot button issues” and a situation that seems, to put it kindly, unusual at best, may not have been made in good faith.


#37

Thanks you Op for the precisions.
Your emotions are quite normal.
You are not in the middle of situation wich is an ethical dilemna.
You are not responsible of the actions of your close relatives, and cannot change them.

God always heard our prayers. Yet others have free will too.

As a spiritual family, (the Church) we can offer you compassion, support and prayers.


#38

I agree with you that it is unbalance when adults discuss theses sort of topics online with minors who are vulnerables.

As you know, some go online because they don’t know to who to turn around.

Personally I choose to believe the OP, find the situation credible and his posts& replies consistents.

I choose to reply to him and try to respect the authority of his parents (CAF rules and common sense). It is always a difficult exercice.


#39

@Anicette i might have to wait till friday or saturday, when my mother is in a better mood. She is actually quite stressed right now, due to her work and I would hate to bring this upon her now. But thank you for your advice, I appreciate it greatly. And i have emailed my local priest


#40

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