Swedenborg and Padre Pio


#1

Padre Pio never read the writings of Swedenborg, but being a good Priest, I know he would had agree with the writings if he had read them.

The Swedish philosopher Emanuel Swedenborg and the Italian priest Padre Pio were said to exhibit bilocation. Another story involves a nun appearing to American Indians in the American west.

Harry:)


#2

I read part of Swedenborg’s Heaven and Hell . It’s not that well written but nevertheless is interesting. It made me think of Heaven in a new way.

I love that English Hymn ‘Jerusalem!’. The words were written by the famous English poet, William Blake. He was a follower of Swedenborg, who was very popular in England. Here are the lyrics:

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England’s mountain green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England’s pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England’s green and pleasant land.

**Words by William Blake (1757-1827) **


#3

Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772) Scientist, Philosopher and Spiritual Explorer

This is an excellent site for info on Swedenborg, who was an interesting man.


#4

What is this Swedenborg nonsense? Is this one of those New Age deals? All these religions have been around for thousands of years and all of the sudden some philosopher comes around and everyone says, “oh look how smart this guy is!” Under what authority or logic is this guy even valid? Was he Catholic?
Who cares if he can bilocate? That is not what makes someone a holy person! St. Pio wasn’t holy because he bilocated, he was holy because he prayed and loved. And just because someone has some sort of spiritual gift doesn’t always mean that they recieved it from God…there is a wrong way of gaining things too.


#5

Swedenborg was Lutheren. He was Swedish, so probably not exposed to the Catholic church. I think he was very devout, from what I’ve read.


#6

And now people are following his works like he is some sort of prophet?..and now they start a church out of it?
Great, another wise guy to cause people to be decieved!
Sure, he may be devout and a Christian, but there is always that wolf in sheeps clothing. He could have been a very good man, but that doesn’t make him right. People like this are close to the truth or at least very concincing in thier arguments and that is the problem…but it is just one person, who is subject to error. For some reason if someone is 90% right people follow them forgetting about the other 10%.
There was a book my friend read called “Conversations With God”. The author claims that he spoke to God and was revealed the truth. It is one of those happy books where it talks about how everone is perfect and hell doesn’t really exist…that sort of stuff. And if you read it, it can be very convincing. Why do people believe this guy talked to God?..Well, because he tells them what they want to hear, not what really is the truth.


#7

Dear Flick,
Why are you sounding so angry? I’m just telling you what I know about Swedenborg. Frankly, you sound pretty cranky. Are you eating properly and getting enough sleep?

As far as starting a church, I don’t think that was his intent, from what I read. I’m not sure the details of all his teachings, but his followers did start some sort church, which I think was at one time called the ‘New Jerusalem Church’. Now, there are a few scattered Swedenborgian Churches.

Apparently, he had some sort of visions, claimed to talk to Angels, and had some sort of esoteric interpertations of the Bible. Anyways, his movement gained some popularity in England, where he lived for awhile. As I recall, though, the Lutheren church considered him a little too far out, I think there might have been some sort of formal inquiry into his claims.

Read the site if you want more info. It’s quite interesting…


#8

Swedenborgianism is grossly incompatible with Catholicism, and even mainstream Christianity in general.

From what I have discovered, swedenborgians apparently have the following beliefs:

  1. Swedenborgians seem to believe that the Book of Acts and The Epistles were not inspired works, as are the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) and Revelation.

  2. There is no Last Judgment, because they believe it has taken place already way way back in 1757, witnessed by Swedenborg himself.

  3. There is no physical resurrection, since man is fated to spend an eternal afterlife, either in heaven or hell as a disembodied spirit. The physical body is simply cast off at death, never to be resurrected.

  4. Angels and devils are not pure spirits, but are former human beings who have died.

  5. One can sin in heaven !

  6. The Christian concept of the Trinity is mistaken, since God is only one.

To Harry, are those your beliefs ?

Gerry


#9

[quote=RobedWithLight]Swedenborgianism is grossly incompatible with Catholicism, and even mainstream Christianity in general.

From what I have discovered, swedenborgians apparently have the following beliefs:

  1. Swedenborgians seem to believe that the Book of Acts and The Epistles were not inspired works, as are the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) and Revelation. Not true

The Book of Acts is how the Disciples understand the Lord’s words.All angels and men have they own understanding of truth from the Lord.Paul’s writing were his own understandings.Truth can be express in many ways as they are angels in heaven and men on earth. The four Gospels have a spiritual sense or internal sense in them, because the words were spoken by the Lord.

  1. There is no Last Judgment, because they believe it has taken place already way way back in 1757, witnessed by Swedenborg himself.

Order was accomplish in heaven and hell.

  1. There is no physical resurrection, since man is fated to spend an eternal afterlife, either in heaven or hell as a disembodied spirit. The physical body is simply cast off at death, never to be resurrected.

There’s no waiting in the grave forever for last judgment day. Who wants to be in that state?

  1. Angels and devils are not pure spirits, but are former human beings who have died.

Heaven and hell are from the human race.The reason for heaven and hell, so that the human race can continue forever.Those in heaven are willing to be led by the Lord,and those in hell are not willing.They want to be led by themselves.There is no fire hell.Nobody burns. Fire in hell means hate towards the Lord and those who look to Him.In hell the evil spirits must work in order to eat.No one there is allow to do evil to another or they will be punish.Even angels are send to hell if they have allow themselves into evil.They sent back to heaven when they repent,and see their wrong doings.

  1. One can sin in heaven !

Angels are not perfect,but they don’t make a habit of sinning.Only God is perfect.

  1. The Christian concept of the Trinity is mistaken, since God is only one.

God is one, in Person and in Essence.

To Harry, are those your beliefs ?

Yes

Gerry
[/quote]

Harry:)


#10

Protestants DO NOT (bilocate) this type of Charism like Stigmata is STRICTLY limited to CATHOLICS… there isnt ONE verifiable case of a non catholic even being investigated by the Church for this. If this guy Bilocated…he was either carried on the wings on demons or his other self was impersonated by one.


#11

How maidens are educated in heaven
Three, four, or five, are kept together; and each one has her own room,and in it her bed; near that, is a tiny little chamber for their clothes and for necessaries. There is also given them a cupboard [skap], with cases, or drawers [lader]; so that they may put away in them things which they value. In these they take much delight, and store such things up in them.

[font=Arial]They are always kept at their work, which is embroidery worked upon white linen. They embroider flowers and such things; and the things they produce by their labor are either for their own use, or they give them to others: they do not sell them.

These groups of 3, 4, or 5, unawares to themselves, receive garments which they clothe themselves every day.A better garment for feast days. [font=Arial]

And they have a little garden also, and as long as they are maidens, there are only flowers in them,no fruits until they become wives.

[font=Arial]When they see spots on their clothes, it is a sign that they have been thinking ill, and that they have done something which ought not to be done. The spots cannot be washed out, as from clothes in the world. When they find out what they have thought and done wrong, they think about it.They see their blemishes and their evils. If they get better again, the spots disappear from the clothes of their own accord. In like manner, when they see in their chamber that one of their clothes is missing they immediately know that they have done amiss. If they fail to see what is wrong, a wife comes and tells them. If they see that there is a new garment in their chamber, they inwardly rejoice, because they know that they have done well.

[font=Arial]When, also, they see that the flowers in their little gardens become dim, or change into worse ones, their attention is arrested.When into better and more beautiful ones, they rejoice, because it is a token that they have thought well. [font=Arial]
Also, there are given them coins of silver or of gold. These they carefully treasure up, because they are tokens of industry or of virtue.

They have the written Word and Psalters, and they take them with them to the preachings. They likewise read in them; and if they do not read, either some garment is taken away, or the little garden disappears. The preachers sometimes visit and examine them.

All males and females in heaven are virgins, married or not.
[font=Arial] [/font][/font]Harry

[/font][/font][/font][/font]


#12

All angels and men have they own understanding of truth from the Lord.Paul’s writing were his own understandings.

Scriptures are inspired writings. Paul’s writings were not merely his own understanding but he was lead by the holy Spirit in writing his epistles. In short, they are inspired written word of God not his own.

God is one, in Person and in Essence

.

God is One, three Divine Persons, one in Essence. This is the doctrine of the Holy Catholic Church.


#13

Spititualson,

Don’t compare my spiritual father St. Pio to Swedenborg. If what you said above is the belief of Swedenborg, then he is not to be compared to St. Pio. His views are totally not Catholic.

Pio


#14

[quote=WhiteDove]Swedenborg was Lutheren. He was Swedish, so probably not exposed to the Catholic church. I think he was very devout, from what I’ve read.
[/quote]

Wait, wait. Please be careful. Swedenborg was not Lutheran in any real sense. It’s highly doubtful he could even be classified as Christian in the orthodox sense. Let me give the bottom line on him. He was a very intelligent version of Joseph Smith (Mormons) who lived in the 16th and 17th centuries. For most of his life he was a brilliant scientist/engineer. Late in his life he apparently had some kind of spiritual crises and began ‘seeing’ the spiritual world all around him and conversing with Jesus, angels, saints, etc. In his words it was the 'opening of his spiritual sight," “the manifestation of the Lord to him in person,” “his introduction into the spiritual world.”

This would be classified by Catholics as private revelations, only problem being that these conversation with Jesus were of the nature of the Lord ‘correcting’ the orthodox understanding of Christianity which had grown up over the centuries. This is very similar to the claims Mohammed made, but Swedenborg’s corrections are infinitely more intelligent and gentle. He denied many basic tenets of Orthodox Christianity (i.e. the Trinity).

It’s hard to call him New Age per se as he predates that movement, but I think it fair to call his current day followers (The Church of the New Jerusalem) very new age in orientation (and more or less universalist). None of this is to cast aspersion on Emmanuel Swedenborg as he apparently well regarded and loved by most who met him. It is only to clarify that his revelations fall well outside of Catholic orthodoxy, and Padre Pio most certainly would NOT have agreed with Emmanuel Swedenborg.


#15

Steve,

I agree with what you said. Let us also all be reminded that St. Paul warned us, even our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. False prophets will come at the end of times masquerading as angels of light. Let us be careful reading the books of these people “conversing” with Jesus or angels. They may not be the Lord or the angels of light they are conversing but the angels of darkness. Discerning them with the help of the holy Spirit is necessary. BTW, they can do also bilocations, among others. They mimic the gifts of the holy Spirit in order to deceive souls.

Pio


#16

“Protestants DO NOT (bilocate) this type of Charism like Stigmata is STRICTLY limited to CATHOLICS… there isnt ONE verifiable case of a non catholic even being investigated by the Church for this. If this guy Bilocated…he was either carried on the wings on demons or his other self was impersonated by one.”

I saw a show on TV a couple of years ago on the stigmata. An Anglican deaconess and a black girl in the US had the stigmata. Doesn’t mean that this phenonmena was from God. Many Catholics had the stigmata but not necesarily from God. (ie. Rose Feron).


#17

[quote=WhiteDove]Dear Flick,
Why are you sounding so angry? I’m just telling you what I know about Swedenborg. Frankly, you sound pretty cranky. Are you eating properly and getting enough sleep?

As far as starting a church, I don’t think that was his intent, from what I read. I’m not sure the details of all his teachings, but his followers did start some sort church, which I think was at one time called the ‘New Jerusalem Church’. Now, there are a few scattered Swedenborgian Churches.

Apparently, he had some sort of visions, claimed to talk to Angels, and had some sort of esoteric interpertations of the Bible. Anyways, his movement gained some popularity in England, where he lived for awhile. As I recall, though, the Lutheren church considered him a little too far out, I think there might have been some sort of formal inquiry into his claims.

Read the site if you want more info. It’s quite interesting…
[/quote]

No, I am eating fine and not cranky. Perhaps I am not praying enough and that is my problem:( .
It is just that this Swedenborg and other new age stuff makes my head hurt when I hear about it. People listening to supposed “mystics” that have no validity. It is sad to see, some guy has an idea and people follow it and make a religion out of it.


#18

[quote=SpiritualSon]Padre Pio never read the writings of Swedenborg, but being a good Priest, I know he would had agree with the writings if he had read them.
[/quote]

And you know that exactly how?

"…The deviation from the dogmatic views of the church of the period was twofold: firstly there was in Swedenborg’s writing a penetrating criticism of certain dogmatic teachings. First of all was his criticism of the old doctrines of the Trinity and of Christology. According to his opinion the errors arose in the very earliest period of the church which led to the teaching of the triple personality of God and that of two natures in Christ. When faith had been separated from charity, in the sense of active love of the neighbor, the doctrine of faith became an arena for extensive disputation, the result of which was to lead men further and further away from the truth. Probably his most striking criticism was that of the orthodox Protestant doctrine of justification, which was directed by him against its originator, the apostle Paul himself. His main reproach against Paul, which constantly reappears in his criticism of the contemporary theology of justification is this: Paul, by his teaching of the doctrine of salvation by faith alone, had separated faith from charity, and had thus given charity a back seat in the virtues of Christian piety (“whereas charity is everything”) and had in this way contributed to a loveless theological formalism in the church. :nerd:

swedenborg-philosophy.org/journal/article.php?page=1011&issue=103

Perhaps if you are a student of Swedenborg’s, you’d like to share his visions of Catholics and/or their hierarchy in the afterlife?


#19

Yes, I’d especially like to re-read the part about the Pope (It’s been years since I read Swedenborg so I no longer recall which Pope it was) flying overhead of Catholics in the ‘outer’ part of heaven proclaiming his regret for not recanting the concept of the Trinity when he knew it to be false. :smiley:


#20

Yes, that’s one thing I remember from that book, that he stated that you wouldn’t be allowed into Heaven unless you thought there was one God, not three. I gathered from that that he had some sort of Unitarian, Oneness type belief, and did not accept the Trinitarian view of God.

Nevertheless, his vision of Heaven was interesting. He really elaborated on the communities of Angels, the levels of Heaven, etc. He said that the hierarchy of Heaven was spiral, with God being in the center, and those communities with a higher spiritual development being closer to the center. Some of it did make sense.


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